Religion [Archive] - Screen-Gems

ZorCrow

01-22-2005, 06:34 PM

I am a Bible Believing, Born Again Christian. I am also a licensed and ordained minister Non denominational. I do Evangelical work. I have had one other "faith" in my life. I do hate how some have hijacked my beautiful faith for their own evil purposes, this has been done since 300 AD, but those people who hate, slavery,rape, murder, steal, lie, send to war, and do all sorts in evil are as much Christians as I am a billionaire (I am no billionaire and they are not Christians).

So much evil has been done in the name of religion and politics, that's why I don't jump on Islam. I know what it is like being a Christian and people blaming you for everything, I know that those idiots who crashed planes into buildings and blow up innocent people are monsters pure and simple.

Also, you know what I find weird, SOME people who are religious blame those who aren't religious for problems, and those who are athiests and agnostics blame religion for their problems.

Ahh Humanity! The corrupted hearts of men!!!

Jill Monroe

01-22-2005, 06:45 PM

So much evil has been done in the name of religion and politics, that's why I don't jump on Islam. I know what it is like being a Christian and people blaming you for everything, I know that those idiots who crashed planes into buildings and blow up innocent people are monsters pure and simple.

and there you have it!:)

Also, you know what I find weird, SOME people who are religious blame those who aren't religious for problems, and those who are athiests and agnostics blame religion for their problems.
Ahh Humanity! The corrupted hearts of men!!!

i dont quite agree that ALL athiests and agnostics blame "religion"...some of us know (just as you said in your last statement) its really about the "corrupt" hearts of men" and its also about the hypocrasy of the loud mouth idiots (some of which you and i both saw on another board in recent past).

I still maintain there is a DIFFERENCE between religion and being spiritual. You and I are friends despite our different spiritual paths..weve talke about this at length and disagreed more than once...but we still remain friends.

a "religious" person wouldve condemned me to hell the moment i said that i was a witch...EVEN THOUGH they themselves may smoke (weed) , drink, do drugs, fornicate, lie, swear or any other "sin" that would equally qualify them for hell as well. :rolleyes:

ZorCrow

01-22-2005, 06:50 PM

and there you have it!:)

i dont quite agree that ALL athiests and agnostics blame "religion"...some of us know (just as you said in your last statement) its really about the "corrupt" hearts of men" and its also about the hypocrasy of the loud mouth idiots (some of which you and i both saw on another board in recent past).

I still maintain there is a DIFFERENCE between religion and being spiritual. You and I are friends despite our different spiritual paths..weve talke about this at length and disagreed more than once...but we still remain friends.

a "religious" person wouldve condemned me to hell the moment i said that i was a witch...EVEN THOUGH they themselves may smoke (weed) , drink, do drugs, fornicate, lie, swear or any other "sin" that would equally qualify them for hell as well. :rolleyes:

It's my view those who judge others harshly need to check their ownselves first. Also, I could never judge or condemn you Spellbinder for reasons I won't say :D :D

Lauren Collins

01-22-2005, 07:23 PM

Yeah, I really hate it that some of your parents force Jesus on you or whatever. That's definitely NOT the way to try and "convert" anyone. Things like that just really bug me. If someone wants the faith you have, they will get it... If they don't, oh well. You can't make someone believe something, no matter how hard you try. And the more people seem to try, the more the other person seems to run away, you know?

So woohoo! :) Love to everyone! :p

Jacob Black

01-22-2005, 07:49 PM

My Family does not have a religion. My mother is an Eclectic Witch and has been ever since I was born. That is I guess the religion I was raised under, but it was never really forced upon me. Myself.. I have dabbled and what not, but I don't have a religion really.. I just consider myself spiritual.

My family is very different from others. My Uncle is a Psychic who has given readings to Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman and used to live by Oprah's Winter House.. He is also a Shaman and channels his Spirit Guide Black Bear through his body. Everyone in my family tells me that I should be a Shaman, and that I look almost identical to my uncle when he was younger...

My Grandma can perform automatic writing, in which Spirits enter your body and write through you. She has done this for a long while. She is a very gifted psychic as well...

My sisters.. well the older one, Sarah is more into boys and all that, but Heather is just explained in my family as.. Magical.. She was always talking to things that weren't there when she was little and seeing ghosts and stuff. My uncle said she is going to be a pretty decent witch.

The rest of my relatives are step so they don't really get it.. but I completely love and celebrate my entire family for all of their gifts :)

Jill Monroe

01-22-2005, 07:56 PM

speaking from personal experience.. i think that as a person is growing up...they will take on whatever path of faith their parents follow. children tend to follow their parents. it isnt until they grow older and began socializing with their peers before they began to search for their own identity in various aspects. growing up, my parents were in the pentacostal church ...so thats what i was too..a pentacostal christian. it wasnt till i reached 8th grade that i began to feel differently...and by that time my father had basically left the church and my mother was looking for a less "legalistic, hypocritical" setting.....so that helped me to be able to find my own path too.

hopefully the parents would understand and let the child grow into his/her own and find the path of spirituality that works best for them....but that isnt always the case...and thats when the problems come.

i dont think parents know the damage they do by forcing a child to "believe" one way when that might not make sense or appeal to them. a person's spritual needs cant be met like that.

DegrassiFanatic

01-22-2005, 09:09 PM

I am a catholic and its been a few years since i have been to church i been wanting to go back but my family has never found time to take us

Dapper Dan

01-22-2005, 11:12 PM

I really haven't been to church much since I came to college. I grew up in a very very small town and religion was always very important and a big part of my life. I was raised a Freewill Baptist. I dunno but since I came to college I just haven't gone... I hate to use the term "lost my faith" because I still believe but aslo college has opened me upto new ideas and experiences that I hadn't taken into account before. Not to mention pointing out some of the historical and philosophical flaws of the bible....

Oblivion

01-23-2005, 05:03 PM

Born into a mainly Catholic dominated family, I was Catholic like the majority of my family for quite some time, until several years ago in which I converted to Wicca; having not been satisfied with all of Catholism's beliefs, and seeing my parents were never extremely restrictive or forcefull about which Religion I chose for myself- they were quite open minded really.

So I've been a Wiccan for quite some time, and have been a Witch for a few of those years, although I was more intrested in the Religious side of Wicca at first, I branched out into Witchcraft and the Magickal side as well, after I was sure Wicca was right for me- but thats a totally differrent subject, so I'll leave that at that. I have to say that even though most of my family is ok with my choice, my dads side of the family still choose to believe I'm going through a "phase", seeing they are the more Religious side of the family- where as my Mothers side are very non-chalent about it.

However, despite me being Wiccan, I still participate in most Catholic Holidays- which are more like big family get togethers, rather then anything to do with Religion. Like I said before, my parents were never forceful about Religion- which I am truely grateful for, I know so many other people who have been considering converting as well, but are too scared that their parents will 'disapprove', or punish them etc.

That is what gets me, people who are too insecure about themselves to allow their children to branch out into their own choices, and start making decisions that they believe in. Rather then being forced into something they don't believe in.

Jill Monroe

01-23-2005, 05:31 PM

Alice Cullen

01-23-2005, 05:46 PM

My parents are Christian... well, the most RELAXED christians ive ever known. They celebrate the holidays and teach their children to know the difference between right and wrong. Mom is a homeschool teacher and she teaches the girls about the biblical stories that actually have historical value.

My grandmother[on my dad's side] is the most bible-thumping-est woman ever. I used to go to sunday school with her when she went to church. When i was younger, i remember being so bloody bored, lol. As i got older though, i became much more opinionated. the atmosphere had such negativity for me, i NEVER felt like i belonged with them. There is so much shame incorporated in christianity, imho. you are taught to be so damn remorseful and repentive. Easter became a chance to celebrate that all humans are, by nature, fuck-ups. When i moved away to college, i, like dresden, was opened up to so much MORE.

Dont get me wrong, Christianity has good morals. You shouldnt lie, cheat, steal, murder, or bed everything that moves.... but there is too much logically contradictive about it. Stories that dont fit historically, rules and regulations in the bible that just DONT make sense any more. Not to mention the fact that die-hard Christians believe that everyone else is WRONG for not believing exactly what they do. Im actually enjoying exploring other religious beliefs. I took a philosophy class last semester that was very eye opening.

At the moment I guess I'm not anything. i'm a spiritual person, but i find too many flaws in conventional religions. they just dont fit me and what i believe and im not into conforming. Maybe i'll make my own religion. :)

:fdevil: Wouldn't THAT be disasterous? Titania at the helm of a religious movement. It cracks me up to think about it.

Jenna Jameson

01-23-2005, 10:21 PM

I've never really been religious. My parents were pretty much your basic Christians, but they weren't full on and didnt force their beliefs on anyone. At least they called themselves Christian, tho Mum was the only one who went to church regularly. I used to have to go to Sunday School which I hated. I've always been a sensible person and I guess, in a way, sceptical. I found the stuff they tried to teach me was hard to believe (and understand), tho I always made sure I was allowed in the main part of the church when they had communion so I could have the bread and fake wine LOL ;)

I think when I was around 7 or 8 I told Mum I didn't wanna go to church anymore. She wasn't too surprised and was cool with it. So basically since then I haven't been affiliated with any religion. Not to sound elitist or anything, but I think if something goes wrong in my life, its my fault, and if something goes right, then I caused it to happen (directly or indirectly). I can't stand hearing on evangelist shows and stuff how folks think God is upset with them because they're ill or whatnot.

I have basic morals I go by (eg. don't steal, don't kill anyone lol) but thats about it :) I guess I don't like the restrictions some religions put on you. I'm cool with folks having their own beliefs and such, but when they try to force stuff their ways onto you then it's wrong. Tho I'd rather have Jehovah's Witnesses at my door then mobile phone salesmen. At least they're easier to get rid of! :elaugh:

ZorCrow

01-23-2005, 10:22 PM

I know most folks seem to say Christianity logically and philosophically contradictis itself . . . how? That would be a good discussion to get into. I am open for it. To me JESUS is the way truth and the life no man cometh to GOD but by him. Christianity is a hard message to some, a message of life to others. I don't shove my faith down anyone's throat but I am proud and honest about what I believe. I think folks have a natural bitterness toward Christanity becuase of the religion that has been made out of it. The true teachings of the BIBLE and true power of it is beyond anything that I known. Folks always ask me do I believe in GOD and JESUS I say No! I can't believe in somenoe that I've met. Without JESUS' personal intervention in my life I would not be A Christian nor a Minister, nor here today.

Sometimes I sound like Jerry Fallwell, Sometimes I sound like Joel Osteen but you do know where I am coming from and what I am about.

Dapper Dan

01-23-2005, 11:35 PM

I have basic morals I go by (eg. don't steal, don't kill anyone lol) but thats about it :) I guess I don't like the restrictions some religions put on you. I'm cool with folks having their own beliefs and such, but when they try to force stuff their ways onto you then it's wrong. Tho I'd rather have Jehovah's Witnesses at my door then mobile phone salesmen. At least they're easier to get rid of! :elaugh:

My biggest pet peeve with organized religions are especially the ones that try to shove their religion down your throat. I have my own set of beliefs and such and I don't try to force what I think upon anyone else. It just urks me to have someone say that you have to believe this way because it's right and I know it.... how? because the bible says... blah blah blah.....

your thing about the Jehovah's Witnesses made me think of that one part in Robin Wiliams' Live on Broadway... where "people will com knocking on your door at 6 a.m. going 'have you found Jesus?'.... then you should grab them by the hand (after answering the door naked of course) pull them inside with you and go 'no, come and help me look for him'" LMAO

Tempest

01-24-2005, 12:03 AM

Jenna Jameson

01-24-2005, 02:49 AM

your thing about the Jehovah's Witnesses made me think of that one part in Robin Wiliams' Live on Broadway... where "people will com knocking on your door at 6 a.m. going 'have you found Jesus?'.... then you should grab them by the hand (after answering the door naked of course) pull them inside with you and go 'no, come and help me look for him'" LMAO

LMAO! :hehe: Robin Williams is freaking hilarious :D I'll have to remember that one ;)

Lauren Collins

01-24-2005, 06:17 AM

I do think that a lot of the reason people steer clear of so many religions is because they want freedom. I mean, if you turn to Christianity, there are obviously tons of restrictions. The fact that that automatically turns people away really bugs me. I mean, it's not just the church that puts them on us... The Bible even says things like, "You will face many trials and persecutions" and "Then Jesus said to the disciples, "If any of you wants to be my follower, you must deny yourself, shoulder your cross, and follow me."

I think the words "deny yourself" stand out the most in that last verse. No one wants to do that. No one wants to give up things they indulge in.

Another reason I think people don't believe in my religion is because of the lack of explanation, I guess. Christianity is such a hard thing to explain to people, aside from FEELINGS and EMOTIONS. I mean, we couldn't say, "I tried praying to God one day and BOOM- A million dollars appeared on my doorstep!" I mean, sure, He could do it, but in order for Him to do things like that, we have to have faith, which is what so many of us lack. The best proof Christians can give are things such as the sunsets, holding your newborn baby in your arms, conscience, and falling in love for the first time. They're all such amazing things that just could not have happened by coincidence.

I think the best part of Christianity is knowing that we were created for a reason. Other religions don't teach you that there was a Creator, someone Who knew you before you were even in your mother's womb. Someone Whose thoughts towards you are as countless as the grains of sand on the seashore. That all of our days were laid out before any of them came to pass. And that God loved each and every one of us so much (regardless of whether we love Him back or not) that He sent His only Son to die on the cross for our sins. The Passion of the Christ really was the best depiction of the story I've ever seen or heard of. It's about time someone REALLY hits the nail on the head instead of trying to make the crucifixion look nice and pretty and politically correct. :)

Then, of course, there are the personal experiences of people who have encountered too many hypocrites in their life to even count. That's probably the WORST case. :(

If it's scientific evidence you want, we have it... But evolution and creation never stop competing, so it's pointless to even say them. :p

But yeah, I hate having people mad or arguing with me- I'm just stating my point of view in a hopefully mature manner.

Jacob Black

01-24-2005, 12:06 PM

Well, I know that most religions of the Occult such as Wicca and Witchcraft and Paganism believe in God and Jesus Christ, at least believed that they existed. The problem that I have with the Bible is that it is the word of God as depicted by Man and I have said this countless times on other boards... I believe the things in the Bible happened, but I also believe that they have been changed over the centuries by corrupt members of the clergy and those alike.

During the european witch trials, they changed a verse in the Bible from "Thou shall not suffer a poisoner to live" to "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live" in order to further their own insecureties about other religions. That is the kind of thing I am talking about. All through History, we have had corrupt members of the cloth, selling absolution for sins. The Bible is a great thing, but I don't believe it is something that you can live your life by literally because the words are not the literal words of God anymore...

The Bible says some crazy things that you can't take seriously like "If your right hand offends you, cut it off!" I love people who are religious and that it works for them, but people think that other religions that are not mainstream don't deal with God at all, and they do. I am not Christian or anything main stream at all, but I am spiritual..

Alice Cullen

01-24-2005, 01:36 PM

I think the best part of Christianity is knowing that we were created for a reason. Other religions don't teach you that there was a Creator, someone Who knew you before you were even in your mother's womb. Someone Whose thoughts towards you are as countless as the grains of sand on the seashore. That all of our days were laid out before any of them came to pass.

If it's scientific evidence you want, we have it... But evolution and creation never stop competing, so it's pointless to even say them. :p

Lol, you're doing a great job being mature. I've seen people get so friggen pissed off that its comical. But you bring up a very good point, so let me counter. And Zorcroft, this is in response to you too.

God has our entire life planned out. Ive heard that SO many times. When I hear that, I ask, well, what about our "God given" Free Will? Is it really free will if all of our "choices" are [i]already written out? Contradiction there. Terribly frustrating. Which is it?

I'm one of those people that hates the idea of not being in control of my life and my future. Maybe its not clicking together in my head because its just my subconcious determination to deny Fate any kind of credit for what I work hard for, which is my success and growth as a person.

As for historical contradiction, lol, well, Lauren brought that up for me as well. Evolution and Creation so go against each other. We don't even have to discuss it, lol.

Jill Monroe

01-24-2005, 02:04 PM

the only thing i want to comment on in this current phase of discussion is the problem that some Christians have with Evolution.

if i may present THIS point of view: EVEN IF all things were created at the start....wouldnt life forms STILL HAVE TO EVOLVE in order to have survived to this DAY? some of the animals we enjoy as pets began millions of years ago as another type of creature and there was an "evolution" and "adaptation" process that took place to bring us the creatures we now see today. Even WE as humans have adapated.. i dont know how far we have "evolved".....because our frailties (the narrow range of temperatures in which we can exist, the inability to survive in high pressure environments etc) are still very much a handicapp..but why is it so hard to consider the possibility that even if all things were "created" they still went through a process of "evolution"?

this is where "RELIGION" would annoy me.. Religion doesnt allow for free thinking...nor does it encourage a true study/scrutiny of the bible..which is full of contridictions.

Oblivion

01-24-2005, 02:07 PM

Oblivion, its nice to see a fellow witch here;) looks like we learned something new about each other. slightly off topic..but did you celebrate the winter solstice and solar new year on 12/21/04?

this is a VERY good topic of discussion its good to see where different people come from and how spirituality has effected their beliefs and thought process.

I celebrated the Winter Solstice yes; a group of me and my friends came over to my house and we basically had fun, kind of like a little party with some ritual's and prayers thrown in:hehe: And pfft Amy, since when am I a member of your groupie cult? Better get your facts straight hun:rolleyes: Haha.

Anyways; so that this post isn't completely off topic; I agree one hundred percent with Prophet; going on what he brought up about the bible- the Bible has been changed countless times; the original words twisted and re written when the time comes that particular members of the clergy would like to rewrite their own sets of beliefs into their religion. But I won't get into that anymore, seeing I'd just be repeating everything thats already been said.

Alice Cullen

01-24-2005, 02:36 PM

this is where "RELIGION" would annoy me.. Religion doesnt allow for free thinking...nor does it encourage a true study/scrutiny of the bible..which is full of contridictions.

Oh, super good point F. This is my irritation with it as well. Its theyre way or the Highway. I'm walking the highway, and you know, its really not so bad. I can be open to new things and i can be objective, AND I can explore myself and my interests without feeling the conctrictions of religion.

Another thing about the Bible's changes.... are also some things that didnt change about it that make you realize it isn't as suitable for this generation as it was when it was first written. Maybe back then it was a really BAD idea to eat animals that chew their cud... nowadays, we have medicine and ways to prevent illness from spreading from livestock to humans. We're talking about hundreds of years of evolution as HUMANS, and some things have changed. The Bible, though it is a wonderful teaching tool for morals and right and wrong, etc, is no longer very current.

Another historical factoid.... historians have proven that of the gospels [the new testament, mainly the ones regarding Jesus' death and his ressurection] Mark was the first written. It has ALSO been proven that Mark wrote about and portrayed things he could not have POSSIBLY be able to witness. [I.E, the exchange between Pontius[spl?] Pilate and Jesus, wherein Pilate is so famously generous and fair and ask Jesus whether or not to sentence him as the Priests are demanding. Many historians believe that was included because Mark wanted to avoid angering the romans with the release of the story, and politically, was rather motivated to appeal to the romans and well as the jews. AND.... ALL of the Gospels were written more than THIRTY years after Jesus's death.

Tempest

01-24-2005, 03:34 PM

My biggest pet peeve with organized religions are especially the ones that try to shove their religion down your throat. I have my own set of beliefs and such and I don't try to force what I think upon anyone else. It just urks me to have someone say that you have to believe this way because it's right and I know it.... how? because the bible says... blah blah blah.....

your thing about the Jehovah's Witnesses made me think of that one part in Robin Wiliams' Live on Broadway... where "people will com knocking on your door at 6 a.m. going 'have you found Jesus?'.... then you should grab them by the hand (after answering the door naked of course) pull them inside with you and go 'no, come and help me look for him'" LMAO

LMAO. I've done that before...minus the naked part and the inside the house part. It was 6 AM on a saturday morning lmao. I answered the door, looked at them, grabbed the baseball bat outta the closet door next to the main door and chased their sorry asses down the street with it x.x I was SO pissed off lmao.

ZorCrow

01-25-2005, 05:54 PM

Actually your statements bring out some erroneous points

1. Matthew and John were eyewitness gospel accounts of the life of JESUS CHRIST
2. The contradictions seem not to be contradictions at all, just things folks have a problem with believing. Why is it so hard to believe GOD made everything? Why is it so hard to believe evolution is wrong?
3. About the bible being twisted and mis translated, well there is a whole book on the validty of the bible called, "The Signature of GOD." for me to make the factual and historical arguments about the bible's validity it would take up 1,000 pages. So I won't go there.

The thing is this, the gosepel of JESUS CHRIST will be made manifest to us all,
to us who believe it is made manifest now, to those who don't it will. Like I said no one says anything about the Koran and the Vedas. I have heard everything written before and worse.

So I am done with this matter, as you can see one thing. I am a minister but I don't argue nor debate the truth of the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST needs not for me to defend it. It will change your life, it has changed mine.

That's all I have say about that.

Alice Cullen

01-25-2005, 06:35 PM

Alright, I'm the LAST person that wants this to turn into an arguement, as those who know me personally can vouch, but let me take it point by point, as you have.

1. I'm sure they were... but I wasn't talking about Matthew or John. I was talking about Mark. Mark wrote about things he couldn't have POSSIBLY witnessed. [Namely, what I mentioned before.]

2. I don't know about others... but for me, it's because evolution MAKES SENSE.... it's just plain logical. Keeping on contradictions, you still didnt answer the question that NO ONE has been able to so far, and that's the Free Will one i posed in my last post.

3. Religion is learned. It's taught by ministers and preists and by our parents. Take that whole catholic church scandel a while back... the preists that were molesting children.... do you want people like that teaching you children? I don't want those people anywhere NEAR any children, mine or another's. I realize not all preists/pastors/ministers are like that, but you must admit, its alarming, and how long did it go on before they were exposed? How many children are STILL being brutalized? How many generations were exposed to it and never came forward? how many times over the YEARS since the creation of the Bible have the men in power been 'bending' their own rules? How many changes to the Bible do we not know about?

I wish it would manifest itself to me already so i'd have some answers.

I can't say anything about the Koran or the Vedas, as I don't know much about either and haven't read them, save for an excerpt from the Koran about women. [Which I, for the most part, objected to.]

Jacob Black

01-25-2005, 07:43 PM

Evolution is Adaptation. It is a really simple concept to figure out. People evolve over time, millions and millions of years. It is just like say when you put your finger on a lighter and you got burned, if you did it every single day for say like a million years, your finger would take longer and longer to feel the sensation of being burned. Evolution. Adapting to one's surroundings. The human race developed what they needed to live over time.

Jill Monroe

01-25-2005, 07:58 PM

ZorCrow....an OPEN MIND remember? this isnt that OTHER board you were on before...and there is no need to become combative...and please dont try to FORCE your beliefs on others. Stand by your beliefs and be steadfast (its something that ive come to know is a very good quality about you as we've talked elsewhere) we are all here to discuss "religion" and spirituality. :)

I still hold to MY thinking that there is a DIFFERENCE between being "Religious" and being "Spiritual".

Prophet, yes i too agree that evolution and adaptation go hand and hand. as i mentioned in a post a while back...even IF you subscribe to the belief that all things were "created" ...they STILL had to adapt to their environment and over time have EVOLVED. we didnt see (for example) a common house cat millions of years ago. ALL life forms have adapated and evolve into the versions we see today..including humans...but their are some creatures (crocodiles and sharks) that have essentially remained UNCHANGED for hundreds of years...

Pam Ravenscroft

01-26-2005, 11:30 PM

I wasn't raised with a religion...but like Brandon stated, I do find myself to be spiritual.

My grandfather was Jewish however, but because my mother was adopted, he didn't press the issue of religion onto her. Although, my mother does wish that she had some religion in my house hold, whichever it may be. But for me personally...I'm fine with believing in what I believe. *shrugs*

Oh...this kinda goes with the subject of religion. How does everyone feel about the very controversial movie "Passion of the Christ". Even though I don't have a set religion, I do know a bit about the Bible and basics of other things. And I personally found the movie to be very intense.

Lauren Collins

01-27-2005, 10:52 AM

Yeah, I've always had some "weirdness" regarding the facts that the Bible has been passed down for centuries and written in so many versions. Personally, I'd love to learn Hebrew and travel to Jerusalem or wherever it is they keep those sort of sacred documents, lol, and translate it for myself. I mean, who knows what people may have taken out or added... Although I hope they didn't take out or add anything since they obviously left a verse in Revelation that says, "Whoever takes out anything or adds to this book shall be cursed with the 10 Plagues of Egypt" or something... lol yikes.

And about the Passion of the Christ... Lots of non-Christians liked it, which I was actually quite surprised about. And a lot of Christians DIDN'T, which I also thought was odd. I thought Mel Gibson did the best way of portraying the last several hours of Jesus's life better than anything we've seen. He was brutally honest. Every movie depicts it as this pretty little, "Jesus saved you from your sins! Accept Him now or HELL IS WAITING FOR YOU!" kind of thing. But truth is, that's not how it works, and it wasn't very pretty. It's about time someone shows us what He really went through. I'm sick of everyone saying it was "too bloody"...We all know we've seen worse. Needless to say, I bawled my eyes out. It's one of those times... Well, I'm what people would probably call the "emotional Christian". lol... I cry so much because I just get overwhelmed by it. It's so creepy sometimes, honestly. lol. But yeah, I sat in the theater for at least 15 minutes just crying with several of my friends. Talk about a guilt-trip. And I did it 2 night ago, also, just thinking about the movie. I thought about how many things I complain about when there are so many people who have it SO much worse than me...I have NO RIGHT.

And regarding the "free will"/"every day was written in His book" thing... I have to admit, that has always freaked me out. I've even asked my parents before, "Well, Jesus already knows what I'm going to do and when I'm going to die, so I can't control it, right?" I don't know. It's very weird. And I definitely can't explain it. But since that verse isn't a direct quote from Jesus or anything, who knows if it really has some entirely different meaning or whatever. The Bible means so many things to different people, all based on interpretation. Some religions say, "Take the Bible literally, word for word." But then... in the book of Revelation. When it talks about "Seven lampstands," I really don't think it means literal lampstands up in Heaven. lol...They're symbols of the 7 churches that each segment of the book is written to. But, you know...yeah.

I really don't think that Jesus knows the CHOICES we're going to make. He probably knows the choices we will be FACED with... But not what our eventual decision will be, which is where the free will comes in. I don't think He wants Christians like me trying to force our religion upon everyone, because that's NOT giving people free will. That's pretty much turning them against it right then and there, you know?

Regardless of what religion or non-religion you are, you always have the last say on your life. You DECIDE. :) Although sometimes I wish I didn't have to when I'm faced with a hard one... lol

Dapper Dan

04-25-2005, 01:38 AM

Here's an interesting article I'd like to share with everyone... it even makes refrence to my college (Roanoke College) :D whoot! Go 'Noke!

Surveys: Young adults searching spiritually
Many students 'spiritual but not religious'
Thursday, April 14, 2005 Posted: 8:25 AM EDT (1225 GMT)

(AP) -- They are often tarnished with labels like "self-absorbed" and "materialistic." But young adults are actively engaged with spiritual questions, two new surveys suggest, even if they are not necessarily exploring them through traditional religious practice.

One of the surveys, of more than 100,000 freshmen who started college last fall, found four in five reporting an interest in spirituality, with three in four searching for meaning or purpose in life, and the same fraction discussing the meaning of life with friends. The incoming freshmen also reported high expectations that their colleges would help them develop spiritually.

"The first surprise for all of us is we didn't expect the students to be in that much of a spiritual quest," said Helen Astin, professor emeritus of higher education and a senior scholar at UCLA's Higher Education Research Institute, which produced the survey, to be released Wednesday. "We had focused on the materialism of students, the 'me' generation, only focusing on their jobs and the future."

Previous, smaller studies by HERI have found students' participation in formal religion fell during their college years. UCLA plans to check back in with its broader group of freshmen in a few years to see if that pattern holds, and on other questions concerning spirituality.

A separate survey of 1,325 18-25 year-olds released earlier this week by Reboot, a Jewish networking group, and several collaborating organizations, emphasizes the degree to which young people are confronting religious issues informally, through conversations and even Christian rock music rather than formal religious practice.

While 44 percent of respondents called themselves "religious," 35 percent said they are "spiritual but not religious" and 18 percent said neither.

At Roanoke College, in Salem, Virginia, where he has been chaplain for more than 20 years, Paul Henrickson said "spiritual but not religious" is the category in which many students put themselves these days.

"You have a lot of kinds that understand in their hearts that there is a mystery about life that is larger than they are and larger than they understand, and they would call that 'spiritual.' And they are very interested in that," Henrickson said.

But, he added, "they pursue that in private ways" and "in kind of a shotgun approach. They'll look at all kinds of things from Eastern religions to yoga to New Age stuff to the standard Christianity. But they are unlikely to have that solid commitment to a religious institution (like) church membership."

Among the 112,000 incoming students at 236 colleges responding to the UCLA survey, those exhibiting a high level of religious engagement -- measured by such activities as praying, attending services and reading religious texts -- were three times more likely to exhibit conservative political tendencies than liberal ones on such issues as gay marriage and abortion.

But other issues defied political labels. Students with high and low levels of religious engagement reported similar views on issues such as the death penalty and affirmative action. To some extent, that likely reflects opposition of otherwise politically conservative Catholics to capital punishment, and support for affirmative action among religious blacks with generally conservative social views.

Liberal and conservative students were equally likely to exhibit high levels of charitable involvement.

"It's very difficult to put people in boxes," Astin said.

Chris Smith, a University of North Carolina sociologist who has studied religious attitudes among people under 18 and was a technical adviser to the survey, said one difficulty is that spirituality means different things to different people.

Some -- like those calling themselves "spiritual but not religious" -- view spirituality in opposition to traditional religious practice. Others consider it an element of their faith and practice. Mormon students, for instance, exhibited the highest levels of both religious engagement and spirituality, among other categories.

"I think one thing (the report) reflects, compared to what we found with teenagers is (college-aged students) are starting to branch out somewhat in their thinking and their exploring," Smith said. "We found very little spiritual questing and exploring among kinds in middle school and high school."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/04/13/young.adults.religion.ap/

Jill Monroe

04-25-2005, 10:17 AM

this article definately remnids me of ANOTHER article i read on Yahoo that gave an ALARMING view on the role of the government that YOUNG PEOPLE think it should have. They basically were all for the Government having more power to scrutinize private citizens, enforce censorship in the name of decency...and they believed, in some cases, the exact OPPOSITE of what the Constitution affords us in terms of personal liberties and freedoms.

Just last night, as i was watching some news on the fight the Democrates were waging to stop certain nomiees of President Bush to get a set on the Supreme Court....i heard a "young person" (who was of republican affiliation) say.. "we want justices that represent OUR faith and moral standards!" ..as if he was speaking for ALL of America!

THAT is my problem with this new found "Neo Conservative" movement and the sudden SURGE in Religious mentality that is coming across TV and through politics......ALL OF AMERICA is NOT CHRISTIAN/RELIGIOUS. There are MANY paths of spirituality...and for those of us who DONT follow christianity...that doesnt make US heathens, or "indecenet" or "immoral".

there are plenty of "non christians" who are spiritual and practice good morals and decency towards their neighbors and society...where does that leave us? young people today tend to dissapoint me with their blind allegiance to Bush...a man who basically DUPED various demographics of society with his "moral/faith foundation"...and used THAT to achieve his goal. If you notice..he doesnt even WANT to get involved in this fight against the filibuster launched by the Democrats (although his bulldog, Dick Cheney does)..and if he DOES come out against the Dems filibuster ..then he will have broken his own promise and violated due process in the senate!...but i digress.

I think on one hand, its good that "young people" are at least AWARE of spirituality...its just unforunate that so many of them are caught up in this "religious hype".

Osiris

04-25-2005, 11:57 AM

Well, well, my kind of topic :)

I am a Muslim, because I believe Islam is the true religion of God.

For the record religion comes from the word in latin regalio(sp) which means sacred.

As far as the word as we have come to know it (man-made laws) I think religion is a farse.

It is my faith that there is one ultimate truth and that is a Supreme Being who created all. Therefore, as Islam teaches, ANY who believe in The Supreme Being and work righteousness is going to go to heaven, the same goes for Judaism as well.

In Islam we are taught that religion(laws, etc) were revealed to different peoples at at different times for those people to guide them and keep them on the path of God.
That is why religions have different laws. So, follow those which you claim as long as you continue the path of righteousness.

By the way, Islam means submission to do the will of God, therefore ANYONE who lives their life doing righteousness and doing the will of the Supreme Being is a Muslim which means one who submits.

Now for the background info:

I grew up in the church as a Baptist, I was baptized at least 3 times that I remember. I at somepoint in between began to follow the path of Wicca as a solitary in HS, after seeing and experiencing things I felt were a little to be bluntly scary, I went back to being a born again Christian hence 3rd baptism.

About 4yrs ago after 9/11 while doing research on Islam and reading the Quran, I accepted Islam as the true way of life, recited the Shahaddah and have been a Muslim ever since.

I study and debate religion and politics as a hobby, and enjoy these types of questions.

Peace

Jacob Black

04-25-2005, 11:51 PM

I am one of those people who is Spiritual but not Religious and to be honest Farrah, most of the people who go to those conventions and everything that ARE Republicans are Christians or some type of one...

To me, Spirituality.. NOT Religion plays a bigger part in my life.. just to know there is something greater than me out there and to know when I eventually die I will figure it out is enough to me.. though I have pretty much renounced Christianity and most forms of it and I do not believe in Hell at all.. and I believe there are many different images of God and representations and that is cool.. I think it is just stupid for there to be a RIGHT religion.. like we are all going to die and get up to the pearly gates one day and God is going to be like "Sorry guys.. the Mormon's were right..." and boom we go to hell.. it is ridiculous..

I am sorry if it sound harsh but I believe Religion is the biggest Scare Tactic and shield used in our country and it sickens me to DEATH. Everytime someone says something that is SOOO egotistical mysogenistic and RACIST they just go "Well it's in the bible.." the Bible says some FUCKED up Shit.. it's been changed and edited over the years.. plus.. those are not the WORDS of God.. they are the WORDS of God.. as interpreted by MAN! So get out of your Shield, if you are a RACIST or a BIGOT at least have the fucking balls to admit IT! I mean DAMN!

Anchovy

06-22-2005, 10:07 AM

Meh, that's a GOOOD Question. ANd the current answer is...I have no idea. Two years ago, I would have stood by the Southern Baptist Convention and everything that it stood for: Mostly because I had no idea what the SBC actually DID stand for. Then I read the Baptist Faith and Message, talked to quite a few pastors and decided that the Southern Baptist Convention (with is different from other baptists and even Southern Baptists) was backwards, mysogenistic (sp?) exculsive and (in some cases) hateful. My youth director actually told me that babies and little children who haven't "accepted Jesus Christ" go to hell. I can't believe that. SO I'm 'searching' I guess. I've been to a Catholic church with my boyfriend a couple of times, but THAT's not for me, I've talked to some really wonderful Muslim women who are very strong in their faith, but I don't think that's for me either. I've currently got a hold of a few of Laurie Cabot's books (as well as Merlin Stone's When God Was A Woman) and I'm fascinated with Wicca in particular, paganism in general and also the art of witchcraft. I love the ideas of personal empowerment and responsibility, respect and love for nature, and love and acceptance of other people. They resonate with me and connect with something in my gut that tells me this is right.

I don't like religion. Rules and dogma and 'woman shouldn't speak in church". But I don't know where I'm going to come out on spirituality. I know some wonderfully spiritual Christians, Muslims, Jews, Pagans and many people who just believe in themselves and others. And I know what I'm leaning towards right now. But I don't know quite how I'm going to get there, if you know what I mean.

PS: Dapper Dan: Roanoke College?!?!? I go to Hollins! Hee hee!!

Mat

07-22-2005, 05:19 AM

I personally tend to lean towards eastern religions/philosophies. My views on life and sprituality tend to have some paradoxes, though.

For instance, I believe that all life is sacred but that doesn't keep me from eating meat. It's my personal belief that you should never take a life in a wasteful manner. I don't kill spiders - I put a glass over them, slide a paper underneath the glass, and release them outside. About the only insect I intentionally kill is the mosquito, and that's because it's trying to suck my blood. ;)

As for an afterlife, God, and whatnot...I leave that to the theologists and philosophers to ponder. All I can do is live a good, honorable life as best I can. Whether I go to heaven, achieve nirvana, or rejoin the divine pool upon death is out-of-my hands.

Clairvoyance

07-22-2005, 05:35 AM

I am Wiccan. I don't have any problems with other religions, with the exception of Satan worship. I don't care if I'm being unfair and/or discriminating. It bothers me when some wishes worship something so evil. Whether it exist or not. Many Christians that I know are unfamiliar with my choice, as I am unfamiliar with Christianity. I came from a Southern Catholic/Christian family, neighborhood, and society, but I NEVER understood. I don't feel this way being that particular religion is WRONG. It's just not what I choose to believe.

It's my personal belief that you should never take a life in a wasteful manner. I don't kill spiders - I put a glass over them, slide a paper underneath the glass, and release them outside. About the only insect I intentionally kill is the mosquito, and that's because it's trying to suck my blood.

Wow. I'm impressed. Most men don't think with such...thought.:worry:

Hawksmoor

07-27-2005, 01:38 PM

I personally don't much like the idea of any organised religion, it has to be said. There were enough idiotic reasons for bigots to cause trouble without creating a social order where it becamse easier to do. Creating religions, as far as I can see, is more divisive than inclusive (although most religions like to believe otherwise, using the phrase "we're inclusive, as long as you renounce other faiths and join us!" or variant).

I have no problem with spirituality, or personal belief; I just have a problem with any system set up so that life is out of your hands, since you have a "higher power" who makes everything work, or even any state which creates "us" and "them".

The only moral dilemma that I have is that Catholicism, historically the religion responsible for the most bloodshed (what with Crusades, witch-hunts, and so forth), has also given the world some truly great works of art, either on canvas or the octave. The same goes for all other major religions too.

Whitefox

07-30-2005, 01:49 AM

I had religion forced upon me at an early age. I was not allowed to make a choice on whether i wanted to go to church or not. I had to go. Once I got older I rebelled and quit going. Then some very scary things about my past came to light and I questioned the idea of God. It had been that way for many years up untill a couple months ago when my life seemed at it's lowest and my son was in the hospital hanging on to a life that had not had time to flourish. That day I knelt down and had my say with God. I cursed him and berated him and told him that if he did exist that he was good for nothing. They said my son would not last through the night and I damned God for allowing this. The next morning my son was still with us and he is now home and healthy. I cursed God and yet he still granted my greatest wish. I knew then that I was wrong and that I had to turn my life around. I am not holier than thow and I have a long way to go but I am now following Gods path and even though it seems like life just keeps punching me out I know thorugh him that I will survive and in the end I will be better for it through him.