Democrats Voted Out of Baptist Church

[Osiris]

Some in Pastor Chan Chandler's flock wish he had a little less zeal for the GOP. Members of the small East Waynesville Baptist Church say Chandler led an effort to kick out congregants who didn't support President Bush. Nine members were voted out at a Monday church meeting in this mountain town, about 120 miles west of Charlotte.

"He's the kind of pastor who says do it my way or get out," said Selma Morris, the former church treasurer. "He's real negative all the time."

Chandler didn't return a message left by The Associated Press at his home Friday, and several calls to the church went unanswered. He told WLOS-TV in Asheville that the actions were not politically motivated.

The station also reported that 40 others in the 400-member congregation resigned in protest after Monday's vote.

During the presidential election last year, Chandler told the congregation that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic Sen. John Kerry should either leave the church or repent, said former member Lorene Sutton.

Some church members left after Chandler made his ultimatum in October, Morris said.

George Bullard, associate executive director-treasurer for Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, told the Asheville Citizen-Times that a pastor has every right to disallow memberships if a church's bylaws allow for the pastor to establish criteria for membership.

"Membership is a local church issue," he said. "It is not something the state convention would enter into."

He added that the nine members were not legally terminated because Monday's meeting was supposed to be a deacons meeting, not a business meeting. They have a lawyer looking into the situation, he said.

The head of the North Carolina Democratic Party sharply criticized the pastor Friday, saying Chandler jeopardized his church's tax-free status by openly supporting a candidate for president.

"If these reports are true, this minister is not only acting extremely inappropriately by injecting partisan politics into a house of worship, but he is also potentially breaking the law," Chairman Jerry Meek said.

Doris Wilson, one of Chandler's neighbors and a member of First Baptist Church in Waynesville, said God doesn't play partisan politics.

"I hate to see the church suffer like that," she said. "God doesn't care whether you're a Republican or a Democrat. It just hurts to see that going on."

[Jill Monroe]

i saw this article yesterday! and you know what?? this is a telling blow to Zorcrow's argument about the "anti christian bias"....if ANYTHING...these days its the EXACT OPPOSITE!

pastors and preachers are NOT supposed to promote a political agenda over the pulpit and 20 years ago when i was in my grandfather's church..that kind of practice was extremely frowned upon. hell...many pastors and bishops etc (especially in some of the predominantly black churchs we would visit that were affiliated to us) would DISCOURAGE voting or political party affiliations.

now, pastors use their position to try to steer thier members like sheep...and Bush and his team KNEW that...thats how they were able eto parlay this victory in the 2004 election. Evangelica christians and all those related have definately become politicized and are now pushing "agendas" rather than going about the business of "saving souls".

SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE..its there for a REASON!

The Government does NOT need to be "religiously influenced by people of faith" because while there may be one government in this country..there IS NOT one faith...and to expect everyone in this country to fall under the conservative, right wing, christian point of view is not only thoughtless and disreguarding of the scores of others around america who follow other paths of faith...its down right oppressive. THIS is the kind of crap the Catholic Church and the Papacy were doing back in the days of the Roman Empire.....it all began with Augustus Ceaser trying to legislate "decency" in a society he felt was corrupt with rampant debauchery...and you see where THAT led the Roman Empire to its great and historic FALL.

[Osiris]

Telling sign of how the psuedo-christian movement is trying to take over. Its all prophetical, if you believe in that stuff.

[Deimos]

Just what the hell Im talkin about... Exactly why Im fed up with Christianity...

[Jill Monroe]

there was a discussion about this on several radio stations SIMULTANEOUSLY this morning. i think its pretty obvious that Bush played the "Religion/Morals" card in this election....he was able to use pastors/preachers/bishops etc to use their undue influence on thier congregations. Its well documented that repulican party affiliates were calling people at their homes and feeding them all sorts of propoganda to sway them, while pastors/bishops/etc were purveying politics over the pullpit.

its so sad because many of these christians function more like members of a cult than individuals who have a personal relationship with God.

to ME...THAT is evil...the idea that people think THEIR religion should be the standard for ALL citizens...and that government should reflect that...its just EVIL and it will only lead to problems in society that will escalate.

[ZorCrow]

Well let the Christian Bashing begin, the action of one idiotic pastor at a church in North Carolina has everyone up in arms. "This is why I am fed up with Christianity"
well let me take that tone on everything, this is why I am fed up with White people because of the white fools I deal with each and every day, I am fed up with black people because of the black fools I deal with each and every day. blah blah blah . ..

Seriously, what this guy did was wrong, and Democrats ride religious coat tails just like the Republicans do . . . . We all know that politics has formed it's own religion apart from Christianity called "Republicanism" If you don't agree with the Republican party you are going to Liberal Hell.

We all have a separate religious views, and I am not going to debate are argue with anyone about them.

What this guy did was wrong and he should repent.

[Jill Monroe]

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/nws/p/ap120a.gif (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/ap/brand/SIG=br2v03/*http://www.ap.org)
Pastor Accused of Running Out Dems QUITS


By TIM WHITMIRE, Associated Press WriterWed May 11, 7:52 AM ET



A Baptist pastor accused of threatening to banish from his church anyone who didn't vote for President Bush has himself chosen to depart, leaving in his wake a divided community and a cultural chasm.

The Rev. Chan Chandler, 33, walked out of the church he had led for three years Tuesday night after delivering a brief statement of resignation. With him went many of the young congregants he had attracted to the modest brick church on the outskirts of this small mountain town in western North Carolina.

In leaving, Chandler did not apologize for the controversy that made him a national lightning rod — the claims by some church members that they were told to leave if they voted for Democratic nominee John Kerry.

"For me to remain now would only cause more hurt for me and my family," Chandler said. "I am resigning with gratitude in my heart for all of you, particularly those of you who love me and my family."

The dispute that engulfed East Waynesville Baptist Church in recent months would have sounded familiar to many an American congregation: Aging congregation brings in dynamic young preacher to turn things around. New pastor attracts young members who push for change in traditional ways of doing things. Battle ensues.

As Chandler and his wife drove out of the church's parking lot followed by a police escort, about 40 of his supporters walked out as well, with many saying they were resigning their memberships.

"I'm not going to serve with the ungodly," an angry Misty Turner declared.

But Maxine Osborne, 70, and among those who stayed behind, had a different view of what had transpired.

"A lot of these young people had not been in the church more than a year," she said. The Chandlers "brought in a lot of young people, but they also brainwashed them."

Members said the troubles had been simmering since last fall, when Chandler endorsed Bush and denounced Kerry from the pulpit — saying those who planned to vote for the Democrat should "repent or resign."

Tensions escalated last week, when several members said Chandler called a meeting of the church's board of deacons and declared his intention for East Waynesville to become a politically active church.

Anyone who did not like that direction was free to leave, Chandler said — a statement that caused nine members to walk out.

Many of those who opposed Chandler's leadership said they agreed with the pastor's positions on abortion and other hot-button religious topics, but disliked linking those beliefs to specific political positions and candidates.

"If we wanted politics, we would stay home and watch it 24 hours a day on TV," said Charles Gaddy, 70. "I like Chan. He can preach a good sermon. I just wish he would keep some things out of the church."

Frank Lowe, 73, a leader of the members who left the church in opposition to Chandler's leadership, said, "I think his duty was to preach God's word and let the people sort out what they want to do."

Chandler supporter Rhonda Trantham, 27, saw no problem with Chandler's approach. "If it's in the Bible, I believe it should be preached," she said.

Norman Jameson of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina said the convention — which generally allows its congregations free rein to conduct their business — will try to help Chandler find a new church position if he so desires.



"There was evidently a politicization of pulpit in that the pastor is passionate and he interprets that one political party had a stronger stance on abortion than the other," Jameson said. "Passion makes things happen. In a church leadership role, it can also divide people."

Speaking to those who remained after Chandler's departure, Lowe acknowledged the pain on both sides of the schism. "This is a sad hour in this group's life. This is a sad hour in the other group's life," he said.

But he was firm in his opposition to Chandler.

"A person that will take abuse and not stand up for what's right is not worth their salt," he declared.

Out in the parking lot, as she got into her truck, Trantham was equally adamant. "God will always fix things in the end," she said.

[Deimos]

Come on man, Im not just sitting here taking an Anti-Christian stance just because its the thing to do. I have nothing against Christians, Im just sick of their hypocritcal views, ie, "Do it our way, or you're going to Hell..." or "Allah, Buddah, etc. is the devil, only Jesus can save you..." Their blantant propaganda disgusts me beyond belief...

[Anchovy]

First off, what religion DOESN'T believe that they're right? After all, why would you be following an organized religion if they taught that there were many ways to god? And regarding the pastor quitting: Good!!! I don't care what your political beliefs are, if that church maintains a non-profit organization tax-exempt status, bringing political beliefs into the pulpit could lose the church that tax-exempt status. It's not only going to make your congregation mad, it could cost the church (not the pastor, the church as an organization) a WHOLE lot of money. No matter what party or ideaology a pastor or priest or rabbi or whatever is espousing, I think it makes them a bad leader to bring it into the church, simply because it's doing something that could potentially harm the congregation and the organization. And that shows that this pastor didn't think about hurting his 'flock'. And that makes him careless and reckless and obviously not the right leader for that congregation.

[Jill Monroe]

First off, what religion DOESN'T believe that they're right? After all, why would you be following an organized religion if they taught that there were many ways to god? And regarding the pastor quitting: Good!!! I don't care what your political beliefs are, if that church maintains a non-profit organization tax-exempt status, bringing political beliefs into the pulpit could lose the church that tax-exempt status. It's not only going to make your congregation mad, it could cost the church (not the pastor, the church as an organization) a WHOLE lot of money. No matter what party or ideaology a pastor or priest or rabbi or whatever is espousing, I think it makes them a bad leader to bring it into the church, simply because it's doing something that could potentially harm the congregation and the organization. And that shows that this pastor didn't think about hurting his 'flock'. And that makes him careless and reckless and obviously not the right leader for that congregation.


this whole argument is sound, I agree with it. the points that i bolded in her statement i think are especially on target. Religion and Politics should NOT mix. like i said, back in the 80's when i was growing up and my family was in a pentacostal church, my grandfather who was the bishop, ALWAYS discouraged "the saints" [members of the congregation] from being involved in the political process. He definately would not allow political agendas or lobbying to come across his pulpit and back then in many churches that i visited around metro detroit, the idea of apostolic christians getting involved in politics was so taboo.

NOW, you have these big giant, multimedia churches like Word of Faith, whose pastor, Keith Butler has just announced his candidacy for the senate. He was one of Bush's mouth pieces here in metro detroit and he was using religious beliefs and moral standing as a platform to dehumanize gays, minimize women's rights etc...his pulpit became a venue for political debates rather than spiritual guidance (although i think in his mind the two were one in the same) his church, in my mind has lost all its credibility...the sheer size of it, its precoccupation with a presence on television, radio, in politics and the "celebrity" that Keith Butler has gained.....its all so hypocritical and insulting...but i digress. Churches who use their pulpit to purvey politics and then try to make it so that members should vote the way the PASTOR sees fit....thats not "being godly"...that is more like what a leader of CULT would do.

[ZorCrow]

NOW, you have these big giant, multimedia churches like Word of Faith, whose pastor, Keith Butler has just announced his candidacy for the senate. He was one of Bush's mouth pieces here in metro detroit and he was using religious beliefs and moral standing as a platform to dehumanize gays, minimize women's rights etc...his pulpit became a venue for political debates rather than spiritual guidance (although i think in his mind the two were one in the same) his church, in my mind has lost all its credibility...the sheer size of it, its precoccupation with a presence on television, radio, in politics and the "celebrity" that Keith Butler has gained.....its all so hypocritical and insulting...but i digress. Churches who use their pulpit to purvey politics and then try to make it so that members should vote the way the PASTOR sees fit....thats not "being godly"...that is more like what a leader of CULT would do.

I do agree with you on Churches shouldn't be invovled in political grandstanding. However, your analysis of Keith Butler is way off and totally incorrect. Keith Butler is a man who has done great things for the community of Detroit, not in words but in action. I find it upsetting so many people are pissed off that a Conservative Christian running for office is such a bad thing? Why? I listen to black radio stations whihch endorse only democrat/liberal candidates but they are bashing Butler with the same inaccurices and errors that you are.

A lot of Butler's members are democrats and didnt' vote for George Bush.
He did not tell nor make anyone vote for George Bush. Christians should get involved in politics, however the church should not tell folks how to vote.
Politics is a part of shaping our world, and all citizens have a stake in that. Also, him running for office, he should. Why? Because he's a preacher?
Hypocrisy I tell you. Porn stars run elections why not preachers?

Your anti Christian bias once again is blinding you as it does many in this debate. Black people have a right to have any political view they want,
we all don't have to tow the line and be democrats.

As for me, I am a bible believing Christian, and I DIDN'T VOTE FOR BUSH.

[Osiris]

Politics and Religion is a deadly mix especially to the misguided. These evangeliticals care less about justice and righteousness and more about legistlating their particular faith and beliefs.

There is nothing wrong with Ministers running for office as long as they keep it secular. I as a Muslim plan to run for some office, hopefully the Senate InshaAllah, God willing, but I understand that this is not an Islamic country and I can't legislate Islamic Law or beliefs, but I can rely on my understanding and beliefs about Islam to help guide me in my decision making processes that help legislate.

In Islam we are taught to be just and fair. Just and fair in a secular government means that ALL tax-paying citizens should be afforded the same rights. Life should be held sacred, therefore we must do everything possible to prevent death, equal rights and liberties to ALL must be enforced. Whats good for one must be good for all. The poor must be helped as well as the sick and elderly.

Im going to stop at that and leave it to the campaign, but I wanted to add that those beliefs come from my teachings as a Muslim. Politics exist in Islam, so I have 1400 yrs of examples.

When Christians get into politics.....bad things seem to happen, I don't know why, but maybe the fundamental difference in Jewish, Christian, and Muslim politicians is their ideas about those not like them.

While the Jews and Muslims believe that you don't have to be a Jew or Muslim to go to heaven meaning they are inclusive, Christians on the other hand believe that if your not with them, your against them.

Find me one Christian who doenst fundamentally believe that anything other than Christianity is wrong and I won't post again.