The Current State of the Industry

[Black King]

So just like the title of the thread what are your thoughts on the current state of the comic book industry. It seems like we're either in the middle or just being a new age of comics with DC going back to the brighter Silver age-ish feel and Marvel moving further down their idealism/cynicism scales.

And not just the books themselves but also the companies. The big three (DC, Marvel and Image) are becoming bigger and moving into movies, video games and more but it seems most while they do enjoy the stories and characters it seems comics are still seen as just for children or pimply face nerds in their parent's basement (LOL ironic).

Its not just Comics anymore, with the competition they're getting from Manga its a a tougher business now. In one interview Stan Lee himself said if he was in the business today and had to deal with Manga he probably go out and get drunk LOL. It seems like there is ALOT to look at in today's comic world and its time to look it all over.

[Jill Monroe]

i for one have grown disinterested in Marvel. It no longer holds the fantasy aspect i once loved as a young girl. many characters i grew up with have changed and not for the better.

the comic industry has definately expanded to other forms of media and i guess that was to be expected but as someone who dreamed of an x-men movie before many of "today's readers were even born/out of diapers"...i can tell you that the disappointment of the x-movies really soured me on any future marvel movie projects.

im sure every generation feels less connected to comics as their "youth" comes and goes. my father held little interest in the x-men i grew up with versus the original five he grew up with...but the quality of comics, the staggering expense that now comes with regular collecting and the heavy merchandising/commercializing of titles/characters has put me off.

[Black King]

I think its more of a consumer's market now than it used to be. More variety and outlook then there used to be. Theres still DC, Image, Dynamite, Darkhorse and Broadsword (with their numerous imprints too) to name a few. Most people make the mistake of thinking its either Marvel OR DC. There is more than the usually especially when you outside the big 2 companies. If nothing Marvel captures the same feelings when you grew up its always a good time to try something outside of marvel. Personally Image Comic's Noble Causes seems like something i think you would like.


X-men need to bomb for Marvel to create Marvel Studios. If it wasn't for the creative mistakes made in X-men, DareDevil, Elektra, Punisher etc they never would have even thought of self creating their own movies. And besides the rights to the X-men movies should revert to Marvel if all goes right and we should get better quality movies when it happens.


What do you think of the change in writing styles from then and now?? better/worst, too much decompression, too little??

[goldenboy]

I personally like the decompression and the influence of films and TV on comics. It can make for a fun, involving, “cinematic” experience. It makes the whole endeavor so expensive though. Small stories stretched out over many issues. Arcs are basically designed now as future TPB’s, right? Smart in terms of publishing, repackaging...but it makes buying single issues seem more pointless, less satisfying. I’d been subscribing to a few titles to save money...think I’m gonna stick more to TPB’s from now on. It’s just more satisfying to read a bigger chunk of story.

Coming into comics recently (maybe four years ago), the industry appears to be pretty darn insular (comic books themselves—not all the movies and games and toys, etc). Comic books seem like a niche, boutique medium, really...since the massive, mainstream distribution system died out. Right?

The biggies...the Marvel, DC mythologies are sooo daunting to try to understand...I don’t want to spend thousands of dollars and read hundreds of comics to fully understand these universes. So...I pick and choose writers that I like, and to a lesser extent, characters I like. And good art is (usually) critical.

[Black King]

I'm in and out on Decompression. It can be good, it can be bad but when an issue is stretched just for the sake of stretching it out blah. Bendis has a habit of having making 7 page conversations that can be done in 1 or 2 tops. I'm all for cinematic but not filler. Cinematic is Warren Ellis's run on Authority. Widescreen and huge heroes with bigger than life villains.

[Arkaine]

To be honest I think a lot of comics have lost their appeal due to losing the whole supernatural vibe to them. Sure the costumes were campy and the dialogue was, a lot of the time, redundant but there was just something cool about the idea of huge robots rampaging through the streets after a man clad in yellow tights.. or maybe that's just me.

Now we got the Ultimateverse (not a bad idea in its own right) bringing up grittier more "real" (AKA real to the movies) storylines and messing around with characters to give them more of an "edge". My biggest problem is this kind of marketing is seeping into the 616 universe as well with Joss Whedon single-handedly destroying the character of Xavier, Morrison butchering the White Queen, COUNTLESS people rehashing the whole Phoenix thing.. the list simply goes on and on. At the end of the day the X-Men were a character based book, not a story based one.. a lot of stories were "cool" but we liked them more 'cause of the characters involved but it looks like most of these characters had to be heavily restructured to pander to younger, more "edgy" crowd.


Hence why I stick to Fables and my old copies of Sandman and Lucifer. Good, consistant, and actually lovable characters that don't change without SHOWING the change rather than TELLING.

[Jill Monroe]

To be honest I think a lot of comics have lost their appeal due to losing the whole supernatural vibe to them. Sure the costumes were campy and the dialogue was, a lot of the time, redundant but there was just something cool about the idea of huge robots rampaging through the streets after a man clad in yellow tights.. or maybe that's just me.

Now we got the Ultimateverse (not a bad idea in its own right) bringing up grittier more "real" (AKA real to the movies) storylines and messing around with characters to give them more of an "edge". My biggest problem is this kind of marketing is seeping into the 616 universe as well with Joss Whedon single-handedly destroying the character of Xavier, Morrison butchering the White Queen, COUNTLESS people rehashing the whole Phoenix thing.. the list simply goes on and on. At the end of the day the X-Men were a character based book, not a story based one.. a lot of stories were "cool" but we liked them more 'cause of the characters involved but it looks like most of these characters had to be heavily restructured to pander to younger, more "edgy" crowd.


Hence why I stick to Fables and my old copies of Sandman and Lucifer. Good, consistant, and actually lovable characters that don't change without SHOWING the change rather than TELLING.


this is definately what i was getting at when i said comics have lost their "fantasy" appeal...and how the movies are now dictating the tone of the comics and how the comics themselves are being totally overhauled to appeal to the "younger and as you say "more edgy crowd."

all the specific examples you mentioned (xavier, white queen, phoenix) are ones ive harped on for ages. I would also go on to add shadow cat to the list who was totally destroyed by whedon.

thats why i went over to heroic publishing! with characters like Flare, Whipperette and more...it has that colorfull, fun, "fantasy" aspect that Marvel lost. its CHARACTER driven and the adventures are what they are because of the characters and truly good writing...not some formulated, strategized marketing juggernaunt and "summer crossover" event.

[goldenboy]

Documentary reminds fans to 'Dig Comics,' not just superhero movies

September 25, 2009 | 3:17 pm

It seems comic book heroes are bigger than ever.

In 2007, "Spider-Man 3" topped the charts with a $891 million in worldwide box office. The following year "The Dark Knight" grossed more than $1 billion while "Iron Man" rang up $585 million.

But while heroes are flying high in theaters, comic book publishing is on the verge of being a mere footnote to the cinematic franchises it spawned.

That is deeply alarming to Miguel Cima, who wants to preserve the lore of the truly American pop-culture phenomena -- and he has the help of someone who knows about endangered species, namely actor Edward James Olmos, who led the ragtag fleet of human survivors in the critically acclaimed series "Battlestar Galatica" and, back in 1982, was a key cast member in "Blade Runner," regarded by some as simply the best sci-fi film ever.

Cima's documentary “Dig Comics” will screen this Saturday at the Los Angeles landmark store Meltdown Comics [7522 Sunset Boulevard, 323-851-7223] and it cautions that comic book lore and legacy is in jeopardy. Through various interviews with comic industry vets -- such as Jeph Loeb, Scott Shaw and Dame Darcy -- personal pleas and assorted examples of the comic as art, Cima challenges viewers to see the importance of comics.

“It’s the most vibrant art form that exists in America today and yet nobody engages in it,” said Cima, who took a closer look at the state of the industry after trying to publish his own comic. “At the same time, there’s monetization of properties like X-Men and Batman; they’re making millions of dollars. But no one is going back to the source. People only know comics from the movies. It’s sad.“

The film won best documentary at the Comic-Con International: Independent Film Festival and has been selected for screenings at the Vancouver International Film Festival, the Tucson Film and Music Festival and the Royal Flush Film Festival in New York City. It recently screened at the Downtown Film Festival: Los Angeles.

And it’s garnered the attention of Olmos’ company, Olmos Productions, which has agreed to produce a full-length version of the documentary.

“I had no idea the comic industry had been so badly beaten up until I saw the documentary,” said Olmos, who will also appear in the upcoming masked-man film "The Green Hornet." “It’s a crucial art form that goes beyond comic books. We use it in the film industry all the time with storyboarding. It’s a fantastic art form and a great way to increase literacy among kids.”

Olmos will make a special appearance for the Saturday screening. He’ll take part in a post-screening Q&A with Cima, along with members of the cast and crew.

-- Yvonne Villarreal
Documentary reminds fans to 'Dig Comics,' not just superhero movies | Hero Complex | Los Angeles Times (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/09/documentary-hopes-to-get-people-to-dig-comics.html)


film trailer, here:

YouTube - Dig Comics Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suYs8fB5hjQ)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTqqLmM8rl0&feature=related


That could be cool if Olmos is really serious about producing a feature length version of this doc.

[goldenboy]

Comics could go mass market with Disney-Marvel

Fri Oct 2, 2009 8:27am EDT
By Eric Yep and S. John Tilak - Analysis

BANGALORE (Reuters) - The wall-crawling superheroes and caped vigilantes of Marvel Comics will soon overrun the streets and take to the skies in the more sedate precincts of the Magic Kingdom.

That might not be a bad thing for comic books.

The $4 billion acquisition of Marvel Entertainment Inc (MVL.N) by media giant Walt Disney Co (DIS.N) announced on August 31 could give the publisher a real shot at expanding its niche comic book business to one that has broad, mass-market appeal.

Marvel's new parent Disney, with a media empire spanning radio stations, cable networks, theme parks, toys and movie studios, could expand the limited readership and restricted retail network that have kept the industry in check.

Low growth projections at Marvel Comics, whose library of 5,000 characters includes Spider-Man and X-Men, are reflective of the near-stagnant North American comic book industry, of which it has the largest market share.

"The industry still has to make new inroads if it's to survive -- from distribution right down to the corner comic shop," said Bob Layton, a writer of Marvel's Iron Man stories. "I have no doubt that Disney may bring in a different distribution model."

Disney's experience with characters and its ability to monetize them are expected to add heft to Marvel's comic book business. It also brings with it money, a promise of investments and marketing clout.

"A large number of comic shops in America are dingy, poorly managed venues, akin to porn shops," Layton said. "The comic industry needs easily accessible venues where young people can casually find and purchase comics, either through subsidies or discount incentives."

Comic book publishers such as Marvel and DC Comics, owned by Time Warner (TWX.N), cater to niche customers, usually teenage boys and older males, through specialty stores that only dedicated fans would visit.

"There is a core group of people that are comic book fans," Arvind Bhatia, an analyst with Sterne, Agee & Leach, said. "But to expand that and make it more mass market probably is the biggest challenge."

Disney can certainly expand the audience with mass market appeal, Bhatia said.

The primary means of comic book distribution in North America is the direct market, which was worth about $437 million in 2008, according to comic-book researcher Comichron.com. Under the direct market system, distributors and retailers buy comics from publishers under the condition that they cannot return unsold books.

Marvel has more than 40 percent of the market, followed by DC Comics, according to Diamond Comic Distributors, the largest distributor of comic books in the United States.

The comic book segment contributed more than a fourth of the Marvel's overall revenue in the second quarter. Movies and licensing make up the rest.

"I see the Marvel acquisition by Disney helping to expand the genre of comic books and remove it from the dusty basement of the world," said Sean Creswell, the owner of Capes Comic Book Lounge in Omaha. His shop derives 45 percent of its sales from Marvel.

"I do see Disney stepping in and offering retailers outside of the direct comic book market incentives for selling Marvel products," Creswell said.

Marvel declined an interview request from Reuters.

"For Marvel, the publishing business has been a nice, steady predictable growth business that contrasted nicely with the vagaries of the film business, which is always a lot more volatile," Caris & Co analyst David Miller said.

So far, the route to Marvel characters' gaining mass popularity has been through movies.

"We would expect Disney, because they are a mass marketer, to move it toward more mass market," said Kelly O'Keefe, a branding specialist and managing director of the Virginia Commonwealth University Brandcenter.

Over the years, Disney has evolved from a creator of popular characters to a major media and entertainment brand that makes a lot of revenue from licensing.

"It's all about content," Bhatia said. "And media companies want to have content. Comic books provide some of that. It's one of the ways to be in control of content that you can exploit in different ways, whether it's comic books or movies or toys or video games. It's a quest for content."

The Disney-Marvel deal shines a light on comic books, and any kind of spotlight on comics is good for entertainment companies, said Scott Rosenberg, chairman of Platinum Studios (PDOS.OB), a comic book publishing and licensing company. "A rising tide raises all ships," he said.

Disney can put comic books in supermarkets and give promotional copies away for free with movies, Rosenberg said.

The risk that a comic publisher runs in going mass market, O'Keefe said, is that some of the hard-core audience might drift away to look for alternative comics.

"The challenges are that Disney doesn't take the edge out of Marvel Comics," O'Keefe said. "Marvel Comics have been famous for tackling controversial subjects. You don't want to see the rough edges of Marvel Comics rounded by Disney."

(Editing by Mike Miller)
http://www.reuters.com/article/innovationNewsTechMediaTelco/idUSTRE5912HK20091002