Spiral vs. Pulsar

[Jill Monroe]

Spiral, a woman who is so much more than "Mojo's right hand woman", she VANQUISHED Magneto and left him a humiliated heap, and has trounced an entire group of X-men by herself.

She's a high end magick user and teleporter (given a 7 out of 7 points for speed, flight and agility), she's ferocious fighter, and a very intelligent being able to blend science, technology and magick to any number of effects.

Pulsar, took the name and mantle of Captain Marvel and broke ground as one of the most prominent black female avengers. even leading the team at one point. she's fought such powerfull foes as Moonstone. SHe flies at light speed, channels various energies and can become intangible.


We've seen Spiral be able to successfully attack and SCRAMBLE the powers of someone (mutant or not) even when phased. She's out maneuvered "light speed" movers (just as Magik out maneuvered Pulsar herself once)

Which of these high speed women comes out out on top?

[Black King]

I give this match to Spiral mostly because of the 'Magic" factor. Marvel's magic is very very ill defined. theres really no telling what she can really do with her magic. She could turn Monica into a rabbit and there is also the power negation thing she can do. Not much of a fight if your opponent can shut you down before it starts.

[Rampage]

I take it as a drw. The reason is that Pulsar has been shown to manipulate ANY type of energy, even that of a Green Lantern. Power of that type of level is no small thing, and I am not convinced that the magic power "scramble" (OH GOD --I HATE IT SOOOOOOO MUCH!!!) will even work. If it does ( A big if), I think not consistently, accounting for no more than 1 of 10 matches.

Similarly, it is theoretically possible that Monica could harness and channel the energies that Spiral wields (though not in the same ways) or even draw them from her, cutting HER off as well as she did Kyle Raynor.

Otherwise, they are both formidable adversaries. I am a bigger FAN of Monica, but I would call this a 4-4-2 draw.

[Isis]

that's a stretch dont you think? an energy manipulator is not automatically given over to tapping into magick. THAT requires a highly disciplined mind. Ms. Marvel, another energy manipulator, even during her Binary phase where she could channel ANY form of energy was never shown to be able to tap into/channel MAGICK. in her current form, while she can absorb just about any form of energy and redirect it, SHE herself has admitted she doesnt know what she could do with magick.

Spiral has scrambled the powers of mutants and non mutants alike. She attack people even while intangible AND she has the speed to keep up with Monica.

Most things that work on other people, DON'T work on Spiral. It's been proven time and again...everything from Dazzler's strobes, to Rogue's absorbing powers, to Psylocke's "psycho blasts" to Magneto's power, to Karma's attempts to posess her, PHOENIX III's attacks.


Physical fighting? Monica is toast. Spiral is faster, far more ferocious and has six arms and is an EXCELLENT swords woman.

[Rampage]

While it is true that most could not do that, Pulsar (as Photon) being able to harness and take the power of a GL ring shows she is more than capable.

A GL ring is the mightiest weapon in DC continuity, imbued with the very essence of the elders that sanction it, giving it powers that resemble and usurp the strongest magic. With a GL ring Hal Jordan was able to CREATE life and come back from death itself. Spiral, though impressive, has no such feats to boast.

The fact that Monica did that is beyond impressive. As far as I can ascertain, it is unprecedented to harness GL power as it flows from the ring of the user. That is why I regard her so highly in this.

[Jill Monroe]

While it is true that most could not do that, Pulsar (as Photon) being able to harness and take the power of a GL ring shows she is more than capable.

A GL ring is the mightiest weapon in DC continuity, imbued with the very essence of the elders that sanction it, giving it powers that resemble and usurp the strongest magic. With a GL ring Hal Jordan was able to CREATE life and come back from death itself. Spiral, though impressive, has no such feats to boast.

The fact that Monica did that is beyond impressive. As far as I can ascertain, it is unprecedented to harness GL power as it flows from the ring of the user. That is why I regard her so highly in this.


that's very interesting because Circe (a goddess level sorceress) has pummeled Guy and Hal (the only two green lanters i've ever seen face her) , she negated one of their powers and the other one simply couldnt touch her.


Spiral HAS resurrected individuals btw AND reconstructed life forms to their core (PSYLOCKE anyone?), she is responsible for the creation of the Reavers as well. she's a WILD CARD at best in anyone's universe because even omega class mutants cant effect her. in fact, MOST of her defeats came from her being out strategized or some how tricked. NEVER by force or brawn.

Monica can duplicate unknown forms of energy, but she needs time to build up to that. she can only project one form of energy at a time and in her human form if she engages in excessive energy projection it becomes very physically taxing for her.Power levels are not going to determine this win because Spiral has prooven that POWER isnt always what gaurantees a win in a fight against her.

I think it comes down to speed, which Spiral can MATCH and fighting ability the bloodthirsty edge which Monica doesnt have. For any energy projection Monica could send Spiral's way, Spiral would almost CERTAINLY teleport or manifest a shield. (witness just about EVERY instance where a character such as Rogue, Phoenix IV, Beast or even Wolverine has gotten close enough and had the right moves, but STILL fell short of actually hitting her.) OR she could (as shown when fighting Magneto or Storm) take the energy form and weave a pattern of power sufficient to warp the energy and turn it back against the attacker to BIND them. Spiral will kill first and ask questions later...and if she scrambles Monica's power or forces her to become human again, OR flat out transforms her body into something else, Monica is done.


ETA: During her time on earth with Freedom Force, Spiral has also depowered and imprisoned the ENTIRE TEAM of the Avengers and Avengers West Coast as well. It seemed though, that due to so many targets for one spell, it took longer than the seemingly instantaneous attack she did to the X-men. This roster included such members Thor, so if she could affect HIM, then I believe Monica would almost certainly be effected.

[Rampage]

Touche.

However, Hal has also faced off against essentially the entirety of the world super heroes, including magic users and won.

I agree that Monica will not outbrawn her, but I also think that she can use her ability to harness energy to effects that can stymie even Spiral. Even with the level of powers you ascribe to her (and I have no doubt of your citations), Spiral still has spent most of her time as a pawn of another character. That fact to me is also illustrative.

The last thing that would give to Monica is that she is a former leader of the Avengers, trained in tactics and hand-to-hand by Cap himself. Spiral HAS been outwitted on more than one occasion. I would wager that Pulsar could do it as well, if ANY of Cap's teachings stuck (they did).

In the end I doubt we will agree on this, since we both know that you are FAR more impressed with the use of magic than I am, lol. But I also argue that you must think Monica has SOME chance. Otherwise, why bring it up?

[Jill Monroe]

Touche.

However, Hal has also faced off against essentially the entirety of the world super heroes, including magic users and won.

I agree that Monica will not outbrawn her, but I also think that she can use her ability to harness energy to effects that can stymie even Spiral. Even with the level of powers you ascribe to her (and I have no doubt of your citations), Spiral still has spent most of her time as a pawn of another character. That fact to me is also illustrative.

The last thing that would give to Monica is that she is a former leader of the Avengers, trained in tactics and hand-to-hand by Cap himself. Spiral HAS been outwitted on more than one occasion. I would wager that Pulsar could do it as well, if ANY of Cap's teachings stuck (they did).

In the end I doubt we will agree on this, since we both know that you are FAR more impressed with the use of magic than I am, lol. But I also argue that you must think Monica has SOME chance. Otherwise, why bring it up?



She is an excellent fighter, (though her recent apparences in Black Panther made her look like a timid idiot...THANKFULLY that was retconned to say it was an ALTERNATE Monica :rolleyes: ) her battles with MOONSTONE are why i nominated her against Spiral. Moonstone is a powerhouse that has , at one time, put the HULK down. it probably wouldnt happen NOW (so save your breath LOL) but for her to do that BY HERSELF immediately indicated that even before Moonstone was recruited for the Masters of Evil, she'd be a powerfull woman. Monica's powers at THAT time were hardly what they were now and yet she STILL went head to head with Moonstone. I loved that.

Spiral is not used enough anymore...she used to be a major threat and I wanted to pit her against someone who wouldnt be an obvious choice.

You're right. Monica's skills as a leader would be one of her best weapons, as i said, Spiral is often best beaten by guile and strategy, after all, it was CYPHER of all people who rescued Psylocke from Spiral. Monica's training under captain america as well as her time in law enforcement would serve her well in that regard.

[Rampage]

We completely agree on that. Spiral is an underused character. I think that she was poorly utilized and has been for some time.

I think that MU needs a magic line, focused on maybe 3-4 books: Dr. Strange, Magik, Ghost Rider, and actually Spiral would be good, at least for a miniseries.

[Black King]

there was supposed a magic centric event following the Mystic Arcana series (which for very very nice if you see it pick it up) with Ian McNee and Ashake (Storm's ancestor) but that kind of fell through

[Jill Monroe]

there was supposed a magic centric event following the Mystic Arcana series (which for very very nice if you see it pick it up) with Ian McNee and Ashake (Storm's ancestor) but that kind of fell through

Mystic Arcanna was wonderfull. It definately (and finally) paid attention to Storm's mystical heritage. She's long been listed as having the potential to be a world class sorceress (this was bared out in the original Magik LS).

There was also the one shot called "The Witches" which was also good...but sadly that trio has not been seen or heard from since that conclusion.

Spiral needs to join a reallly bad ass team. she shouldve been apart of the Marauders, she was almost too powerfull for Freedom Force and Pulsar is really wasting away in "Next Wave". She needs to come back and be a foil in the Thunderbolts' side.

[Black King]

Mystic Arcanna was wonderfull. It definately (and finally) paid attention to Storm's mystical heritage. She's long been listed as having the potential to be a world class sorceress (this was bared out in the original Magik LS).

There was also the one shot called "The Witches" which was also good...but sadly that trio has not been seen or heard from since that conclusion.

Spiral needs to join a reallly bad ass team. she shouldve been apart of the Marauders, she was almost too powerfull for Freedom Force and Pulsar is really wasting away in "Next Wave". She needs to come back and be a foil in the Thunderbolts' side.

She was great in "Next Wave" written as a good leader, and inventive with her powers the only problem was it was a "funny" book and a little out of continuity so no one read it :( I think the last time i saw her was in the Promo poster for the Avengers Initiative so we might see her in charge or part of a state team.

Freedom Force i think is done with most of its members evil again, dead or depowered. Theres a new one in Montana as part of the 50 state Initiative but that one is completely different and stocked by new characters. I would say Exiles but i not sure if that would even work with whatever Claremont is doing with that never ending train wreck.

[Jill Monroe]

She was great in "Next Wave" written as a good leader, and inventive with her powers the only problem was it was a "funny" book and a little out of continuity so no one read it :( I think the last time i saw her was in the Promo poster for the Avengers Initiative so we might see her in charge or part of a state team.

Freedom Force i think is done with most of its members evil again, dead or depowered. Theres a new one in Montana as part of the 50 state Initiative but that one is completely different and stocked by new characters. I would say Exiles but i not sure if that would even work with whatever Claremont is doing with that never ending train wreck.


She's a capable leader, but her costume and Next Wave SUCK. She and Meltdown belong in mainstream continuity.

Seeing her fall inline with the initiaive makes me LESS fond of her...i can only hope that this initiative and registration act bullshit blows up in everyone's face...and the devastation results in people getting a clue and going back to the way they were.

Freedom Force's heyday was when Mystique lead the team and it was sponsored by the ruthless Dr. Valerie Cooper. Spider Woman II and U.S. Agent BOTH had brief stints on that team but it was really all about Mystique, Destiny, Blob and Spiral in terms of who got all the attention.

I don't know what this mess is they have NOW for "Freedom Force"...

I think it would really help if a) Monica went BACK to a CODE NAME instead of going the route of "Luke Cage" or "Jean Grey"...that shit is boring and uncreative. b) she needs a new costume and she needs to be apart of a big event in a big way....the last time we saw her playing any kind of MAJOR role was in the Avengers/X-men summer saga: Atlantis attacks. She later had a brief appearence in Acts of Vengeance. Since then she had a SHORT lived return in Avengers Vol. III, a CAMEO in "Disassembled" . Her run in Black Panther ...im not too thrilled about because when i actually picked up a BP book to see her, she was acting so silly and timid, come to find out it wasnt the REAL Monica :rolleyes:


If they ever did another "contest of champions"...Monica and Spiral BOTH should be apart of it.