Invisible Woman vs. Super Man

[Jill Monroe]

Sue Storm, who went from being the "damsel in distress" in every issue of the Fantastic Four to being now the most POWERFULL member of the FF and among the most powerfull characters of MU.

Super Man, the long standing face of almost every incarnation of the Justice League, he's the personification of power in DC with few that can challenge him directly.

THIS is a true round worthy of the ongoing battle of the Sexes...who should win and why?

[Black King]

Superman lifts the battlefield they're on throws it into the sun, battle over.

[Jill Monroe]

Superman lifts the battlefield they're on throws it into the sun, battle over.

could you be a little less ridiculous with your response? :rolleyes: that's like saying "Jean Grey can beat anyone by telekinetically stopping their heart" when we ALL know its not that simple.

Invisible Woman has punched a hole through Galactus, she's fought Doom one on one when he possessed the power of a WATCHER, She's made Wolverine RUN from her. This is not a one sided battle by any means.

[Black King]

fair enough
Whats the strength of one of Sue's force fields? I seen them broken before by powerful foes with high strength and their form and shape are only limited by concentration. Arguably she shouldn't be able to keep up with his speed. She might be able to defend against his blows but the best tactic would be the air. Invisible or shielded she still needs to breathe and Superman can get nuclear heat levels with his heat Vision (melting glass, flash burning soil into obsidian etc.). If he can do it before she can start reacting or blocking it (if that evens works) it would be a fast fight.

[Jill Monroe]

fair enough
Whats the strength of one of Sue's force fields? I seen them broken before by powerful foes with high strength and their form and shape are only limited by concentration. Arguably she shouldn't be able to keep up with his speed. She might be able to defend against his blows but the best tactic would be the sir. Invisible or shielded she still needs to breathe and Superman can get nuclear heat levels with his heat Vision (melting glass, flash burning soil into obsidian etc.). If he can do it before she can start reacting or blocking it (if that evens works) it would be a fast fight.

her force fields and their limits have been tainted by several bad writers. her force fields were defined (even by Reed) as UNBREAKABLE at one point. not even Doom witht he power of a WATCHER could break them.

Her force fields and projectiles CANT be seen by the target so they dont know its coming or that they are about to run into it, witness when she played PIN BALL with The Wizard, making him bounce around off of force fields in mid air until he finally was knocked unconcsious. Super Man could be taken down the same way.

She's contained the Human Torch at his NOVA FLAME level, she's also held back the Atlantic Ocean when it was about to come crashing over New York City, that has to speak to how powerfull her force fields are.

Let's not forget that she can attack internally as well. an Invisible bubble in the brain or windpipe made to GROW, inivisible constructs in the lungs too. She nearly took down the Hulk with that method along with Blastarr, Blastarr was so panicked by it, he determined she would be the first one he needed to take down in future battles.

Super Man needs to breath too. he's the only one you ever see with a breathing mask on during space adventures. the old "Cutting off the air supply" routine followed by some force daggers or other methods to further wind him would be another method for her to use.

[Black King]

Superman needing to breathe is a little iffy sometimes he seen with the breathing mask and sometimes he is without it. If he still needs to breath hes capable of holding his breath for several hours at least. The Invisible Woman's force fields have some level of metal feedback between them and her. Even if he can't break them he can use them to break her concentration. I still say i speeds hes capable of moving at he can out run her force fields. Sue can attack at the speed of thought, Superman can at just under the speed of light.

[Jill Monroe]

Superman needing to breathe is a little iffy sometimes he seen with the breathing mask and sometimes he is without it. same thing with the strength of her force fields (breakable or completely unbreakable).


If he still needs to breath hes capable of holding his breath for several hours at least.

but if he is hit with say an invisible PILE DRIVER, i think that would be sufficient to knock the wind out of him. She's knocked down the JUGGERNAUT that way so i KNOW it would do SOMETHING to him. if he's winded, she could make sure he doesnt get enough chance to draw a decent breath.


The Invisible Woman's force fields have some level of metal feedback between them and her. again, that depends on who is writing. in years past, not so much. the only major example of that was when she was shielding Thing from The Hulk or when she was fighting Thor. her powers were said to be on the wane in the mid to late 90's and so she was hampered in what she could do or for how long but that is no longer the case.

Even if he can't break them he can use them to break her concentration. I still say i speeds hes capable of moving at he can out run her force fields. Sue can attack at the speed of thought, Superman can at just under the speed of light.


you're assuming she's going to rely on force fields to shield herself only? this isnt Invisible Girl circa 1964 we're talking about here. Invisible Woman goes on the offensive more often than not and has the advantage of RANGE to MEET Super Man before he even can REACH her.


AND for the Speed of Thought vs. Speed of Light issue?

MAGIK was fighting Pulsar (back then she was still Captain Marvel II) and Captain Marvel said "You can't stop someone who moves at the speed of light" to which Magik replied "Unless I'm someone who moves a the Speed of THOUGHT" and she then used her stepping discs to send Monica crashing head first into the ground. So is his supposed "speed of light" going to really be a factor against objects that he cant even see COMING?

[Black King]

you're assuming she's going to rely on force fields to shield herself only? this isnt Invisible Girl circa 1964 we're talking about here. Invisible Woman goes on the offensive more often than not and has the advantage of RANGE to MEET Super Man before he even can REACH her.

Not really he has the advantage at range mainly because he can move much much much faster than she can. He can out run her cognitive functions, she can't fight or defend against something moving so fast that its outside her range of seeing and hearing. She blinks and he has like 6 hours to try something. Theres also the behind the eyes heat vision concussion trick which can knock out her powers for a time at a nice distance (Supermind + telescopic vision means he has a outrageous range)

Not seeing her force fields is a simple issue. Arctic breathe or a little burst of heat vision, the difference in air temperature and pressure will light up her forces fields to someone with his senses. He might be able to hear the movement of the air around them and thats not even considering if her Force Fields are visible in any of the energy spectrum.

[Jill Monroe]

Not really he has the advantage at range mainly because he can move much much much faster than she can. He can out run her cognitive functions, she can't fight or defend against something moving so fast that its outside her range of seeing and hearing. She blinks and he has like 6 hours to try something. Theres also the behind the eyes heat vision concussion trick which can knock out her powers for a time at a nice distance (Supermind + telescopic vision means he has a outrageous range)

so now you're telling me Super Man is on par with Flash? give me a break :rolleyes:

Super Man has NEVER been that fast OR gracefull for that matter in battle (I do read DC, though i might not comment on it much).

[Jill Monroe]

Not seeing her force fields is a simple issue. Arctic breathe or a little burst of heat vision, the difference in air temperature and pressure will light up her forces fields to someone with his senses. He might be able to hear the movement of the air around them and thats not even considering if her Force Fields are visible in any of the energy spectrum

if that were the case than Wolverine, with his "enhanced" hearing would have been able to detect her attacks on HIM. Invisible Woman has fought TELEPATHS (Psi Lord among them) who could not anticipate some of her attacks so now you're telling me that Super Man is THAT astute? He's NEVER been portrayed that way before.

[Black King]

if that were the case than Wolverine, with his "enhanced" hearing would have been able to detect her attacks on HIM. Invisible Woman has fought TELEPATHS (Psi Lord among them) who could not anticipate some of her attacks so now you're telling me that Super Man is THAT astute? He's NEVER been portrayed that way before.


Wolverine is way out of Superman's league. Wolverine has a good sense of smell. Superman, possessed x-ray vision, allowing him to see through solid objects (except through lead), as well as telescopic vision (seeing great, even interstellar distances) and microscopic vision (seeing small things, even subatomic particles). These powers could be used individually or in conjunction with one another. His eyes could also perceive the full electromagnetic spectrum including infrared and ultraviolet frequencies of radiation. With his eyes he can see a grain of sand in every facet miles away. His Hearing is accurate enough that he can hear the most faint inaudible sounds and at times from across the globe. If The Invisible Woman's force fields exist in any any wavelength of energy the hes going to see them. If even dust makes a sound touching them hes going to hear it.

[Rampage]

This is a mismatch. I have read them both extensively and Sue is not capable of protecting herself from Supes with her shields for long or attacking him in a prolonged determined attack that would work for long.

The example of speed of light vs. speed of thought is an example of extremely poor writing when it is known that light moves thousands of times fatser than synapses fire. Superman is capable of Flash level movement, but that will not be needed for Sue. She is an extremely capable and dangerous opponent, but I am not convinced that she even wins 1 of 10 vs. Superman.

[Jill Monroe]

This is a mismatch. I have read them both extensively and Sue is not capable of protecting herself from Supes with her shields fro long or attacking him in a prolonged determined attack that would work for long.

The example of speed of light vs. speed of thought is an example of extremely por writing when it is known that light moves thousands of times fatser than synapses fire. Superman is capable fo Flash level movement, but that will not be needed for Sue. She is an extremely capable and dangerous opponent, but I am not convinceed that she even wins 1 of 10 vs. Superman.



This is the same woman who toppled the Juggernaut, has HURT the Hulk, has made Wolverine AND Blastarr (a cosmic baddie) run from her ANDDDD She's punched a hole through GALACTUS.

I'm curious, How "extensively" have you read her if you dont know that she's usually the LAST one standing when all of her team mates get knocked down by everyone from Task Master to Aeysha (formerly known as "Her").

The extent of her powers (derived from the ability to manipulate ambient cosmic energy) allow her to generate "force" to a variety of effects and manipulations. The fields are able to repel solid objects, even those of great mass and momentum, and can repel all but the very strongest energy attacks. She can generate these fields at a distance of several hundred feet.

this is not a power that Super Man can simply BUST through and again you're talking like she's going to merely HIDE behind her shields like she were stuck in her 1960's persona.

Even i dont imagine she'd take this 10/10, but If Doctor Doom and her own husband conceed that she's the most powerfull member of the FF and FIRMLY in the whos who of Earth's most powerfull meta humans...given the nature and use of these powers, I see her giving superman a VERY big problem to deal with.

[Rampage]

I understand your feelings for her, I like her character very much but...she has no chance. I am aware of the circumstances you cite but one thing is quite telling. The Hulk of WWH operates at a general level that Superman also does, and Sue was not even broached as a possible combatant for him. Why? Because the outcome was predetermined. Similarly, she would have BIG trouble dealing with Supes. One reason that she is usually standing sfafter the rest of the FF has fallen has to do as much with the nature of her powers (invisibility and a shield) and the fact that the rest of the FF is not particularly durable.

Sue is capabale, and she has some impressive feats, but Superman? He has survived things that she couldn't BEGIN to manifest. This is not a good fit for her. She may survive, but she cannot defeat Kal-el. Not even once.

Additionally, the very nature of his visual powers would render it impossible for her to hide from him. Just a thought...

[Flashforward]

It would be a split decision. Sue isn't powerful enough to defend herself against Supes, and Clark is too much of a boy scout to hit a woman.

However, if they were both brainwashed and being controlled by Poison Ivy or something, Superman would obliterate the Invisible Woman.