Divas, Devos and good music- a thing of the past?

[Jill Monroe]

There are divas...ICONS in the music industry who have set bars that few of their would be contemporaries can meet.

Aretha Franklin

Cher

Tina Turner

Diana Ross

Barbara Striesand

Madonna

Mariah Carey

Whitney Houston

Celine Dion

Chaka Khan

Patti Labelle

Gladys Knight

Tina Marie

these are women who now LIVING STANDARDS by which other "would be" divas in training must meet. sadly, if people like Ashanti are any indication of what's passing in the music industry..then we are in big trouble.

Whatever happened to:

Regina Belle

Deborah Cox

Tamia

Monica

Chante Moore

Jill Scott

Lisa Stansfield

these women were excellent followups to many of the women i mentioned in the first listing. but many of them waned in popularity at the close of the 90's

now we have to endure the highly marketed yet LIGHTLY talented "singing" of artists like Ashanti, Rhianna, Beyonce and more. its HARDLY worth while in my opinion.

many of the women i have listed above have managed to remain relevant and still command respect. some now dominate the live venues, others still put out highly successfull albums but the emphasis on powerfull women with talent and complete package seems to have been lost....women like the ones i mentioned in the second list have not been given the chance the DESERVE to go to the status of those like Madonna, Whitney, or Cher and will ANYONE ever match Aretha? probably not..but its nice to see women who strive to come to that level.

would ANYONE be foolish enough to compare Ashanti to Mariah, Whitney let alone Aretha? GAWD i hope not and if BEYONCE is what passes for "soul"...then eve I as a white woman can say that the R&B genre is in SERIOUS trouble.

[The Doctor]

I think that the time of the Diva's ended a long time ago. The "Neo-Divas" nowadays are insignificant in comparison to the icons of yesteryear. But unfortunately until times change we will have to endure false idols like Ashanti or Beyonce. But I think that the time of the true Diva is over. Anyone who even reaches their level of greatness in the future will have to have the Grace of God on their side. I am sorry if this is such a shock to you Spellbinder but sometimes we have to let things like this go. It is a shame though that singing just isn't what it used to be. Well at least we still have...Phill Collins? :shrug:

[Jacob Black]

I was just thinking about this the other day, Farrah. I was listening to music and found myself thinking.. whatever happened to that "POWERHOUSE" voice. That voice that made you slap your MOTHER when they hit that one note?

We don't have any of them anymore! The closest thing I have seen in recent months has been Jennifer Hudson's performance in Dreamgirls and even then she was just playing a character ya know? Perhaps when she releases a CD she will be the one to climb up on a Diva throne.

[Rampage]

It is not just divas.

Who is rocking like the Stones, Bon Jovi, Aerosmith?

Who is singing male ballads like Luther Vandross, Freddie Jackson, Marvin Gaye, hell even Keith Sweat or the Force MDs????

Who is making music like Sting, Madonna, Prince, Michael Jackson?

Who is doing hip-hop like LL, Run-DMC, NWA, Fugees, EpMD, Beastie Boys Biggie and Tupac, and other of that time?

Who is a socially relevant as U2, X-Clan, Public Enemy?

NO ONE. It is over.

I would like to add Janet Jackson and Donna Summer to the diva list.

[Jill Monroe]

we could make a thread for each of those genres. in fact, i think there's a "is hip hop dead" thread in this forum made by DDD.

http://www.screen-gems.net/showthread.php?t=3932

the males you speak of: Luther, Freddy Jackson, even Teddy Pendergrass and Barry White would be considered Devos (Male Divas) and while this was meant to highlight how the truly talented and powerfull women of the industry have been eclipsed or somehow "forgotten" and the fact that TALENT sells less than LOOKS these days, there IS a shortage of true male R&B stars as well...the genre is hurting from both ends. MUSIC is hurting.

Quicny Jones, used to bring together an ecclectic group of music artists everyone from patti austin and regina belle to heavy D, Ron Isley, SWV and Gloria Estafan (check out albums like "The Dude" or "Q's Jook Joint") and there would be MAGIC. he hasnt done THIS in years now.

for DEVOS? i guess Tevin Campbell once had promise..but he's a freaked out train wreck now. USHER? he might be the only bridge between old school and this fluff today ala Chris Brown and Mario.

the 80's was a HELL of a time for ground breaking change. three names come to mind for the 80's: Madonna, Michael and MTV.

The 90's saw a major expansive of r&b and hip hop. you had these WONDERFULL sounds like New Jack Swing ala' SWV, Teddy Riley (Guy) , Blackstreet, Kut Klose and more

Madonna, Janet, Whitney and Mariah ruled the day but now...its just not the same in ANYWAY.

I dont understand how Madonna can be eclipsed by the Pussy Cat Dolls who are little more than strippers that can walk/talk/carry a tune at the same time while chewing gum.

how Ashanti and Beyonce can command more radio play than Chante Moore, Tamia, Monica or even Brandy?

Gladys Knight said on a recent interview with Matt Lauer...

"the game has changed. it used to be, you had to stand up on stage with an 8 piece set backing you and a real live microphone and YOU had to do the work. there was no shame in getting sweaty, there was no shame in DIGGING DEEP for those notes and showing the audience you were WORKING that mic. NOW, these young artist today...they have voice boxes, prerecorded tracks and a whole TEAM to do what WE used to do by ourselves.. they care more about profit than they do about success...and EFFORT. it used to be that an artist could put out 5, 10 albums over a stretch of time and that was fine. there was no rush. now, you have to sell MILLIONS of records of the strength of ONE SINGLE in some cases and its almost a SURE BET that you wont have that kind of success AGAIN given the way these artists are "groomed" and they are left with pipe dreams and MASSIVE amounts of debt"

she talked about EFFORT and WORK being put into the art and the ARTIST truly taking pride in their work...not coming off an assembly line like a newly minted Barbie, just waiting to be kicked off by the NEXT "new model".

girls to day like LINDSAY LOHAN and HILLARY DUFF think THEY can some how MATCH Madonna and imitate the "formula" to achieve her kind of success...while everyone ELSE from Gwen Stefani to Britney has been dubbed "the next madonna" and yet NO ONE has managed to replicate quite the same effect that she had.

and will there EVER be another Cher or Aretha? :haha:

[The Doctor]

I can't believe anyone would use the term "the next Madonna" when they have not even worked as hard as she has to get her status as a pop icon. In fact not too long ago (I think it was over the weekend) Britney Spears was discovered to be lip synching during her whole act as the tracks began to malfunction during her "performance." It's really pathetic. Really.

[Rampage]

The phenomenon is about $$$. These artists loved to sing and loved to perform. Companies are trying to manufacture the next superstars with an eye towards maximizing profit and cutting costs, this leads to ad execs deciding who gets signed rather than music people who care about chops. So you get what they want you to have: discardable talent that can be made, maximized, and tossed before they get too expensive. They push artists for second albums that are no good, they take good songs off of one album and insert filler so as to make the consumer buy twice as much shit to get the same amount of decent material.

The artists have also fallen for it, with every parent of a girl who gets tits early and has had a grown man hit on them heading to Hollywood to cut a record, even if she cannot sing. Being a singer used to be a vocation that was hard and you had to be better than simply good. Now you can actually be bad and pretty.