Abortion...yay or nay.

[Pam De Beaufort]

Well I thought I wuold make one of these spiffy controvertial threads, and what's more controvertial than abortion? So many American's have different views on whether woman should be allowed to have abortions. Many people believe that having an abortion means you're killing the baby that is in you. Other's believe that it's the woman's choice on whether she wants to keep the baby or not, because it is indeed her body. So my question is, where does everyone stand on this issue.

Seeing as how I made the thread, i'll answer first. ;) hehe. I'm pro choice. I believe it's the woman's choice whether she wants to have a baby or not. But, with my beliefs there are limitations. Some woman are SO irresponsible about having sex that if they become pregnant, they believe abortion is a quick fix. It isn't, in my opinion. I believe that abortions should be the last resort. Look at Lil' Kim. It's been rumored that she's had like over 20 aboritions. Now THAT's outragous. If you're that irresponsible about using protection during sex, you shouldn't be having it. People need to wear condoms or go on some form of bith control, if they're taking every procaution and something happens where a woman somehow does get pregnant, then it's her choice on whether she would want to have an abortion. I'm fully for it, but for those woman who constantly take advantage of it, that's a different story.

As for President Bush wanting to ban abortion in the United States, I find that repulsive. He's a man. He doesn't have to deal with the reprocusions of being raped, being a victim of incest, or just having sex. He just allows his little spermies to swim on down to the egg and badaboom, there's a one way trip down the birth canal in 9 months. I don't think any man should tell a woman what to do in an abortion situation, it's a woman's choice. Period.

Anyway, what do ya'll think.

[J Soul]

I vote yaynay. :shrug:

[Pam De Beaufort]

LOL. Very cute J. :)

[silvercrystal]

Lol. J.

Personally for myself it would be a Nay, I wouldn't have one myself. But I believe in choice. There was a point when I was set against it but there are circumstances under which it's needed. I just don't like the idea of a life being killed.

So basically Nay but I'm Pro-choice. Everyone should be allowed to make the choice themselves and for there to be a choice there have to be options of both Yay and Nay.

Make sense?

[Jessica Hamby]

I vote way YAY.

Abortion IS a woman's choice. Sam's right, I dont give a damn WHAT any man says, Men have NO right to tell women whether they should or should not have an abortion. When men start giving birth, THEN they can make the decision.

That's basically my arguement on the subject. It's MY body and MY baby and I'll be damned if any man is going to tell me what to do with it, lol. No man.... not even the almighty President Bush has the right to take that choice away. [Anyone besides me notice that Bush loves to infringe on other people's choices?] We, as women, ALONE shoulder the burden of carrying that child for nine months and then we, ALONE, have to give birth to that child.
Not only that, lets say the father decides he wants no part of the child's life. WELL.... that was mighty easy for him to do, lol. What's a girl to do? Why should the next eighteen years of the woman's life be spent taking care of a child she probably wasn't READY for in the first place. I know there's also an option of putting the child up for adoption... but who wants to carry it around for nine months, get all attached to the idea of having a child, only to give it away?

I'm an eighteen year old college student. I've worked HARD to get where i am. I work HARD to stay here. I have goals and dreams just like any other human being. I want to have kids... someday. Not now. i fi got pregnant and kept it, I wouldn't be able to finish my studies, I'd drop out, and I would spend the rest of my life wondering what MIGHT have been. Might i have ended up happier? More successful? Might I have lived a more comfortable lifestyle? Having a child you aren't ready for ruins TWO lives... Yours.... and the life of the child. If you can provide and care for the child, thats one thing... but most of the women who choose abortion can't provide for themselves, let alone a child.

And then, as Sam mentioned, there's rape, incest. that child would be a constant reminder of a very traumatic experience. I wouldn't want to look at my child and see my rapist.

There's that whole bit about how "its murder! its murder!" PLEASE.... there are plenty of people out there that are murdering fully developed human beings, ones with lives and families and hopes and dreams. The 'child' hasnt even developed all ten fingers yet.

President Bush can shove it up his ASS. He, as the leader of this entire COUNTRY, has other more important things to concern himself with, for instance, how much fucking money he has squandered on this Godforsaken war. He of ALL people should realize that America doesn't need another single mother on welfare.

[ZorCrow]

I am against abortion period. It's not a choice it's a child, it's not the woman's body it's the child's body. Individuality. Women are blessed to bare children, they are not their body. I have thought about this long and hard, and how can a civilized society have 40 million abortions since the passing of Roe vs. Wade. I hear folks talk about what about provisions for health of the mother or rape or incest? Then when folks talked about the reasons they had them, "I didn't get along with the dad." "I wasn't ready." "I didn't want anymore children." and of course folks using it as birth control.

That's right let's butcher babies and call ourselves "choice" please. I am unified across the board, I am anti war, anti death penalty and anti abortion, I value life.

[J Soul]

LOL. Very cute J. :)

Awwwww, you said I was cute. :o

Wait...or did you mean my comment? :sure:

[Tempest]

Please stay on topic J ;) lol.

But Lexi, it is murder. You are still killing a living, breathing human being regardless if it's on earth or in a womb. People get in trouble for murder...so what excuses irresponsible women for getting away with killing a baby?

I'm with Zor, I'm pro-life, but like Sam said I do have limitations. I believe it's murder in the respect where it was the woman's decision to have the sex in the first place. If a girl gets raped, or is a victim of incest or whatever it may be, they didn't deserve to be treated that way, they didn't have a say in the action, and while I'd frown on it, I think they should have the right to choose whether they can afford to have the child or not. That may sound "hypocritical" but really, it's just like people who kill others in self-defense. They didn't mean to kill the person, they were just trying to protect themselves. Even the law these days has exceptions, so why not for abortion?

But I firmly believe that if a woman is ready to have sex, they are ready to have a child. It's their own damn fault for getting pregnant in the first place. For the love of all, everyone on this damn planet already knows the possible consequences of getting pregnant, it's a 99% pregnancy rate without any contraceptives. The women on this planet already know better. If they decide to take the risk of having sex, they're taking the risk of getting pregnant, fair and square. Nothing in this world is free; it's always a game of give and take, and you get what life gives you. Just because one gets something they didn't want, doesn't give them the right to get rid of it. Like Zor pointed out, it is not the woman's body in any situation, the woman is not the one dying here (unless you go to a fucked up clinic which is just a whole other situation LOL most clinics shouldn't even be open if you saw how they kept things, ick), it is the baby's body that is being killed, so there is no valid argument for the "it's my body and I can do what I want to it"...that just makes no sense lmao.

And for pete's sake, do you know how hard it is to get pregnant nowadays with all of what technology has come up with? There's condoms for both genders, birth control pills, the new male pills, getting yourselves FIXED if yer a damn sexaholic lol, the morning after pill...I mean good lord, it's not that easy to get pregnant unless you just don't care about trying to keep yourself safe from it. In which case they deserve to get pregnant just for being stupid and not using anything, that was their dumb mistake and the kid shouldn't have to be the scapegoat for it. I just believe if you can't afford a kid, or dont want on at the current time in your life, DONT have sex. It's simple enough. If you want to, have protected sex, it's really not that hard. If you just like to screw around like was brought up, then get fixed or do the opposite of whatever it is your doing that keeps getting you pregnant because 20 abortions is just insane and a big load waste of money. But that's just my view lol.

[ZorCrow]

My question not to change the topic . . .

WHY DONT' FOLKS WHO HUMP AROUND USE CONTRACEPTION?

Too many folks I know get busy a lot without using condomns (consistently not using them once or twice then stop), or birth control pills, or any other sensible contraception alternatives. I am all for contraception we need more teaching globally, and even here in America about the proper use of contraception. To me it's shocking folks having sex with complete strangers without using any protection that's nasty!

I think folk watch too much porn! Even porn stars catch STD's and AIDS but that's another subject as well.

We all can agree USE CONTRACEPTION AND USE IT PROPERLY!!!!

[Jacob Black]

One of my Favorite Quotes about this topic comes from Roseanne! She comes out of a Clinic that performs abortions and see the pro life activists and chants!

Roseanne: Hey Ho, Hey Ho, Life begins when WE say so!

I know it is a serious topic, but I have always loved that.

I am pro choice because there are a number of reasons why women get pregnant and what not and so it is not fair for us to pick and choose who can and cannot have abortions. People abuse every system we have, so no matter what limitations are put on it, there will still be people who abuse it. My mother was on the pill and used a condom when she got pregnant with me. I was almost aborted but my mother couldn't do it. I think there is some merit in that. There are circumstances with sex, and it isn't black and white. If you get drunk at a party and have sex with someone and get pregnant, you should have to be responsible for a child for the rest of your life because of one mistake? And ANYWAYS... If a woman is drunk a man should NEVER proposition her sex. So, if we get rid of abortions, people will just give up their children, leaving many babies to die in orphanages or be in the system their entire lives. My philosophy is, if it ain't your body, it ain't your business!

[Jill Monroe]

I always wonder what is the ULTIMATE point of discussing THIS particular topic. Its such a polarizing thing...and most people who offer their thoughts and opinioins will NOT change how they view it..no matter what is said.

however....i still will offer my thoughts and feelings on the matter:D

as a woman, i am deeply offended when ANY man has ANYTHING to say about abortion and implies that a woman SHOULD NOT have a right to choose. Women have suffered so much throughout history in america....and it wasnt until 1814 that we actually became something OTHER than "second class citizens" and even stilll..it wasnt until the late 60s-70's that the modern woman marshalled her forces and DEMANDED respect and equal rights (equal pay, protection, representation etc) and FINALLY began to get these things.

Roe Vs. Wade was a landmark case...and since that time, women have enjoyed a right that shouldve been their's from the START. Its MY body and I will choose what is best for ME....its just that simple. no out of touch politician, no radical religious right member...and no MAN is going to tell me what my moral obligation is.

Being pro choice doesnt mean that I will go out and purposefully get pregnant because i know i can get an abortion. For me it means that if i engage in sexual relations with someone and in the RARE and UNEXPECTED change my contreception doesnt work....I will have the right to weigh ALL my options and choose accordingly.

Why do so many people think they should decide how WOMEN handle their bodies and make such a critical descision? its something i will NEVER understand..but i can believe that as a card carrying feminist..i WILL ALWAYS be "Pro Choice".

[Stacey Farber]

I VOTE NOOOOOO. I feel very strong about this. I believe if you dont want a baby dont have unprotected sex. Better yet don't do it at all stay on the safe side. Then theres Rape right people get pregnet from that well let me say that all babys need love and a chance. A child does not carry on the sins of the father. In the end though it is the person decision what to do. I am one of thoughs people who you'll find out of plan parenthood holding up and abortion Kills Sign and Protesting because it is true and I dont know how peopple could live the rest of there life knowing that they killed an inoccent child. If it is you can't take care of the baby or if it is that horrible thing called rape there is always adoption. I just think that everyone in the world deserves a chance. Sorry if I came on strong but I cant change how I feel.

[Pam De Beaufort]

Personally, if I was raped, I don't think I should have to take 9 months out of my life to carry a child that I never wanted in the first place. Then have the possibility of complications during birth where MY life could be put on the line because a man decided he wanted to take advantage of me. I understand many of you believe that the moment you find out you're pregnant, there's a child in your stomach, and abortion means killing that child, but if I was raped and put in that situation, and i'm sure if YOU were raped and put in that situation, you'd probably think about abortion a little more.

Honestly, I don't find abortion to be killing a child. It's a fetus, yes it will grow into a child, but it has yet to develope anything that makes us humans, well human. But that's just my opinion on the matter. Although, I do find it disgusting when the baby is developed enough and a woman wants to abort it. That is a whole different story. But that's just my opinion on the matter.

[Foxfire]

I vote yayyyyyyyyyy for what's already been said here. And I'd only be repeating. I've always believed in abortion and I think it's a woman's choice. :nod: :D

[Shadowsfall]

I think that a woman should have the right to choose whether she can have an abortion or not. I myself would never even consider the option, not that I have to worry about it anymore, but I wouldn't if I did. Like pretty much everyone else here, I don't think that it's right when it's used the wrong way. If you're not doing anything to protect yourself from getting pregnant in the first place and you willingly have sex and end up that way then you shouldn't get an abortion. It was your mistake that made you pregnant therefore you should have to deal with the consequences of your actions. But if you were raped or something like that then the option should be available. There are women who cannot have children because it will greatly affect their body and they could die from it. Some of them are not aware of that until after they find out that they are pregnant. They should definitely be given that choice. I actually know two people who have had abortions just so that their parents wouldn't find out or their parents actually made them get an abortion so that they're grandparents wouldn't find out. My aunt made my cousin get an abortion so that my grandmother wouldn't find out and I had my aunt and my cousin for doing that. (My cousin actually ended up getting pregnant again and kept it) And my mom's ex-boyfriend's daughter had two abortions... one because she was only fourteen and the other because she had cheated on her husband and didn't want him to know. The fourteen thing I can almost understand, but the other reason wasn't a reason at all. And now I'm just babbling so I'll shut up.

[Tempest]

Actually, it's been statistically proven that women who have abortions have a higher rate of dying or getting an infection than those who suffer complications in birth. Most knives and scaples abortionists use aren't steralized, nor are their methods with the vacuum. So really...it's up to how much pain the female wants to risk taking lol. My friend's mom had an abortion cuz she had unprotected sex. Now she can't have sex. They ruptured a part of vagina going in...had to be stitched up, bloody hell of a mess. Sucks for her though lol.

actually sam...a fetus is a baby lol. it's just an unborn baby...10 fingers and toes and everything though. I think you meant zygote...that's the term for a developing child. *puts medical classes aside* LOL, either way, it's still a child, regardless of how many toes or cells it currently has...it's still something growing inside your womb.

And as for brandon's last line...damn straight, it's the baby's body! don't make decisions for it ;) Lol. I was supposed to be aborted as well. "Dad" made all the appointments and all. Mom just wouldn't go lol.

[Caroline Forbes]

Most knives and scaples abortionists use aren't steralized, nor are their methods with the vacuum. So really...it's up to how much pain the female wants to risk taking lol.

No that's what will happen if abortions are made illegal - people won't stop having them, they'll start having them in unsafe environments.


I have to make a comment here that it's apparent from some of the comments who in this discussion is still a teenager. That's not meant as a derogatory comment - BUT - when you're 18 it's real easy to say you can wait for marriage or whatever. But in real life, things are more complicated. Using a condom doesn't guarantee you aren't going to get pregnant either. We live in a society where people are getting married later in life, not at all, getting divorced - it is unreasonable to expect someone who never marries to never have sex. Some people might choose that - but that is their choice.


We live in a pretty fucked up world. Where people whose home life is so screwed up because their parents don't give a shit about them turn into career criminals or live on welfare their entire lives or become psychopaths. Where there are so many children who need to be adopted but never are and spend their lives in the system. The world does not need more unwanted children. Having said that - it is a choice. Every person needs to be able to make the choice that's right for them. Pro choice does not mean pro abortion.


And I have to agree with Farrah - how can a MAN dictate whether or not a woman has to ruin her life? Where are the laws protecting the women who have to have those children that make the father share the burden equally? I had a friend in high school who was staunchly anti abortion. And when I asked him what he would do if his girlfriend got pregnant, he said he would dump her.

[Tempest]

No that's what will happen if abortions are made illegal - people won't stop having them, they'll start having them in unsafe environments.

I have to make a comment here that it's apparent from some of the comments who in this discussion is still a teenager. That's not meant as a derogatory comment - BUT - when you're 18 it's real easy to say you can wait for marriage or whatever. But in real life, things are more complicated. Using a condom doesn't guarantee you aren't going to get pregnant either. We live in a society where people are getting married later in life, not at all, getting divorced - it is unreasonable to expect someone who never marries to never have sex. Some people might choose that - but that is their choice.


We live in a pretty fucked up world. Where people whose home life is so screwed up because their parents don't give a shit about them turn into career criminals or live on welfare their entire lives or become psychopaths. Where there are so many children who need to be adopted but never are and spend their lives in the system. The world does not need more unwanted children. Having said that - it is a choice. Every person needs to be able to make the choice that's right for them. Pro choice does not mean pro abortion.

No that's being called greatly misinformed hun ;) I've been to A LOT of abortion clinics around my hometown, along with using one for my english speech final. I've had several friends get pregnant, which reminds me, I need to figure out when I'm taking my friend's mom to get hers. When I volunteered at the hospital, I decided to take a side tour option that was available through a different organization which envolved going to abortion clinics and just watching and whatnot. Half of their equipment was not upkept. It's a miracle these places are even open for business without any squabble. I guess people just don't care that much about what they're subjecting themselves to, I dunno.

It is slightly derogatory, a good number of people who posted were 21 and under. Years doesn't mean knowledge, you can still be young and have your own opinions from other experiences, while being older provides other experiences to add to your own opinion. And in real life, it's not that complicated when you know what you want to do with your life. I have my own path set for me, and no man is gonna make me give up my dreams again. But that's just my view on life and opinion. If they really love me, they should be accepting of me and my wishes, whether it require them to wait or not whatever age I am when I find him. It's not unreasonable, I've seen a lot of people do it...might just be the nature of my city then, I can't speak for the rest of the country or world. Nothing apart from getting fixed (if you follow directions lol) or abstination can guarantee no pregnancy, nothing else has that kind of results, however if used properly, then there's a slim chance to get pregnant. The world's a changing, everything's getting improved. It's very hard to get pregnant while using contraceptives, which is why I say if yer ready to take that risk which is all your own choice, you should be ready for the consequences since you are personally choosing to take them on. It's not a hard concept to understand lol. People who know they dont want kids shouldn't just be going around screwing guys left and right.

There's an enormous amount of kids who can't get adopted because they're too old, not in the popular age requirement, etc. But if you think about it, half the families who apply get rejected for some reason or another. Maybe it's time people rethought who makes a good family and who doesn't. It's sad and I wish I could take in all the kids, but the same thing happens to animals. Does that mean we should just go out and kill all the wild and abandoned animals because there's just too many of them in shelters? It'd be like a total wipe out massacre. The world will always continue to populate until we decide to tone it down a bit, through whatever idea that is.

[ZorCrow]

What is this notion, I am seing in the "pro abortion" arguments about a man "not having the right" to tell a woman what to do with her body. If that is the case what is the purpose of law?

Law is men telling other men what they can and can't do with their bodies and the bodies of others. If I were go to work naked, my boss would send me home and probably recommend a psychological evaluation and a physical workout routine for all the love handles, strecth marks and flab :stupid: .

Men always tell other folks what to do with ther bodies, try going to see the President of the U.S., you think the Secret Service is going to let you do what you want or wear what you want? Not unless you are a Billion dollar donor:)

The body is the baby's you don't believe that the baby's body belongs to GOD (Psalm 127, Jeremiah chapter 1, St. John 17th chapter).

Then there is a secular point of view that the child's individual rights are being violated. As for the Wiccans I know they always tell me how the value human life and freedom. Well getting executed in the womb is not liberty or freedom.

Isn't also it a crime against nature to end nature in the process of a human life? How many genisus have been abortoined? How many great looking women like Vida Guerra and Melyssa Ford? How many hip hop artists? How many viable Democratic candidates for President? 40,000,000 that's insane!
That's over 6 times the amount of Jews killed in the holocaust!

How can we as people of all faiths, of no faith who respect human life, allow the extermination of others freedoms and life? The woman is blessed by GOD to carry the baby, it's not hers. Also, if you doubt that life begins at conception, then talk to a neo natal intensive care nurse, go listen to some heartbeats of some kids, you realize that those little suckers in that womb are alive.

It's murder pure and simple, it's no different having an abortion than it is putting a hit out on an infant and having it murdered. It's not your body women, it's the baby's body. Also, laws govern what we do with our bodies everyday.

It's pure killing and goes against every philosophy and thought of man

1. Christians, Islam, Judism-- sacred law of GOD
2. Atheism, Agnosticism-- Evolution, the survival of the race is being exterminated
3. Wiccanism-- Freedom and nature.

Also, this argument that life and the world is rough, since life is rough shouldn't we just all nuke ourselves or nuke the people who have crappy lives? Wait that's genocide.

History, you know what invading armies did? Kill all the pregnant women.

There is no argument for abortion (murder of innocents) no matter what your faith, or lack of faith is, or what your view of life is.

[Acting is Love]

I'm sorry, i honestly HATE abortion it's wrong, COMPLETLEY! wrong.Your killing a human being! whats with that? Nothings right with killing a human!!!Born or Not! There still poeple, death is bad enough!

[Tempest]

It's called Wicca, not Wiccanism x.x Anyways, almost every single religion values human life and freedom...I've never understood why the hell people bring up religious factors when talking about this damn topic. Yeah, it's the basis for your decision and how you may look on it, but honestly who actually follows the rules of their religion every single time? The woman will still have to choose whether she can have it or not, whether it's against or for their religion because if we spent all our time not worrying about us there wouldn't be a lot of us left lol.

And honestly, men can go tell men whatever the hell they want, but a man trying to tell a woman about something he will NEVER be able to feel or know what it's like to carry a child...that is completely different. Unless men wanna start getting pregnant they have no right to tell woman what they should do or not do. They dont know what it's like to be pregnant, the requirements, the consequences...they dont deal with that stuff, so why should they deal with the validity of having an abortion choice?

[Jacob Black]

Well, I think there is a give and take. Say if two people were in a long relationship and the pregnancy happen, I think it would be only fair that the woman at least discuss it with the man before having one, yeah it's not part of the man, but he helped create it. If women get mad at men who are deadbeat Dads and are all like "I didn't climb on top of me and get myself pregnant", and you think a man should take care of his responsibilities, well this new baby is also a part of him, it isn't just the woman's. I am not saying you HAVE to listen to the man, you need to do what's right for you, but if you cared about the guy, you should at least have enough decency to consider his opinion on the matter.

[Caroline Forbes]

No I agree with you there - the father should be involved in the discussion.

No that's being called greatly misinformed hun ;) I've been
to A LOT of abortion clinics around my hometown, along with using one for my english speech final. I've had several friends get pregnant, which reminds me, I need to figure out when I'm taking my friend's mom to get hers. When I volunteered at the hospital, I decided to take a side tour option that was available through a different organization which envolved going to abortion clinics and just watching and whatnot. Half of their equipment was not upkept. It's a miracle these places are even open for business without any squabble. I guess people just don't care that much about what they're subjecting themselves to, I dunno.

You aren't the only person who has had friends get pregnant. But in any case - and not denying what you saw - what do you think it will be like if abortion is made illegal?

It is slightly derogatory, a good number of people who posted were 21 and under. Years doesn't mean knowledge, you can still be young and have your own opinions from other experiences, while being older provides other experiences to add to your own opinion. And in real life, it's not that complicated when you know what you want to do with your life. I have my own path set for me, and no man is gonna make me give up my dreams again. But that's just my view on life and opinion. If they really love me, they should be accepting of me and my wishes, whether it require them to wait or not whatever age I am when I find him. It's not unreasonable, I've seen a lot of people do it...might just be the nature of my city then, I can't speak for the rest of the country or world. ...It's very hard to get pregnant while using contraceptives, which is why I say if yer ready to take that risk which is all your own choice, you should be ready for the consequences since you are personally choosing to take them on. It's not a hard concept to understand lol. People who know they dont want kids shouldn't just be going around screwing guys left and right.

No years doesn't mean knowledge, and that wasn't what I was talking about. Which is why I said that I didn't mean it as derogatory. What I'm saying is, that as you get older it is not that easy. Not everyone marries at 18 or 21. Of course if you want to wait if the person really loves you they will wait too. But again, that's not what I'm talking about. That is your choice, and should be. Sex can be about more than just procreation. If I love someone and want to express that and am ready to I am going to. You don't have to be 'screwing guys left and right' to get pregnant. It only takes one time.

I do think it's unreasonable - and I can speak from experience, I've been there. I'm just saying it's easy for you to say 'wait' before you've really waited. That was my point, not that I know more than you because I'm older.

There's an enormous amount of kids who can't get adopted because they're too old, not in the popular age requirement, etc. But if you think about it, half the families who apply get rejected for some reason or another. Maybe it's time people rethought who makes a good family and who doesn't. It's sad and I wish I could take in all the kids, but the same thing happens to animals. Does that mean we should just go out and kill all the wild and abandoned animals because there's just too many of them in shelters? It'd be like a total wipe out massacre. The world will always continue to populate until we decide to tone it down a bit, through whatever idea that is.

Do you know what they do to animals who don't get adopted lol?

[Stacey Farber]

Personally, if I was raped, I don't think I should have to take 9 months out of my life to carry a child that I never wanted in the first place. Then have the possibility of complications during birth where MY life could be put on the line because a man decided he wanted to take advantage of me. I understand many of you believe that the moment you find out you're pregnant, there's a child in your stomach, and abortion means killing that child, but if I was raped and put in that situation, and i'm sure if YOU were raped and put in that situation, you'd probably think about abortion a little more.

Honestly, I don't find abortion to be killing a child. It's a fetus, yes it will grow into a child, but it has yet to develope anything that makes us humans, well human. But that's just my opinion on the matter. Although, I do find it disgusting when the baby is developed enough and a woman wants to abort it. That is a whole different story. But that's just my opinion on the matter.

If I was Raped I wouldn't have an abortion I wouldn't even think about it a child does not carry on the sins of the father. Even if the child is not fully developed I still believe it is murder because you didn't give the child a chance to have a life. I don't know how people can live with themselves after they have an abortion.

[Jessica Hamby]

Not, no the sins of the father.... just the eyes.... or the ears... or the nose or facial structure. or the temperament....

Nothing is so cut and dry. Like Vilandra said before, because I'm pro choice doenst make me pro abortion OR pro death.... I think that we should have the CHOICE... and that all available options should be open. this is a powerful technology... and you just can't close pandora's box and end all the suffering. abortion was introduced and now its HERE. banning it won't stop it.... look at controlled substance and the 'war on drugs'. Lets all be realistic.... I know several people who consume illegal substances or have in the past.... just because its illegal to grow, consume, or sell marijuana DOESNT mean its not done.

[Tempest]

You aren't the only person who has had friends get pregnant. But in any case - and not denying what you saw - what do you think it will be like if abortion is made illegal?

It'll just be the same thing as it is now, dirty and unsafe. Lol, still my point lol.

No years doesn't mean knowledge, and that wasn't what I was talking about. Which is why I said that I didn't mean it as derogatory. What I'm saying is, that as you get older it is not that easy. Not everyone marries at 18 or 21. Of course if you want to wait if the person really loves you they will wait too. But again, that's not what I'm talking about. That is your choice, and should be. Sex can be about more than just procreation. If I love someone and want to express that and am ready to I am going to. You don't have to be 'screwing guys left and right' to get pregnant. It only takes one time.

I do think it's unreasonable - and I can speak from experience, I've been there. I'm just saying it's easy for you to say 'wait' before you've really waited. That was my point, not that I know more than you because I'm older.

God i'd never marry at 18 or 21. There's so much I still have to do in life lmao. All those parties to go to ^_^ Weeeeee! lol. And I don't understand your point, you're only confirming what I said in my first post lol. If a woman is ready to express their love like you said, I believe they should be ready to accept the consquences from it. It's only fair, seeing as life isn't fair and square and you have to deal with the crap-hand you get dealt.

Ah gotcha. I'm still waiting. Yeah it's tempting, everyone gets tempted at some point in time, but when I weigh waiting against painful surgical operations, knives or going nine months while dropping outta school, losing my degree and having a kid...it seems a whole lot better a choice if I'm unprotected lol.

Do you know what they do to animals who don't get adopted lol?

Yeah, I'm a vet assistant ;) I'm gonna fund the biggest house of pets in the world LOL. But yeah, its why I don't support the whole mass genocide of kids just because their unwanted, like pets. Atleast let them try to make something for themselves. A lot of orphanage kids actually do grow up into high businessmen or other important people...they aren't just stuck there because no one wants them. I'd rather give them a shot than none at all.

[Caroline Forbes]

I hear what you're saying - it's not that I don't :)

[Jill Monroe]

i notice some of these comments and the age of the posters. now of course everyone is welcomed to participate in any thread here.... but this is not a subject that a teenager or even most "young adults" (especially males) could possibly grasp the true gravity of in order to make a some of the comments i've seen.

its EASY to "preach" abstinence...especially if you are younger and have your parents there really pushing that to the forefront of your mind....and if your in a school where that is taught in your sex ed or health course.

LIFE is not always the way TV, President Bush, "Christianity" or "Pro Lifers" would h ave you think...and its not as simple nor as straight forward as a question of "choose life" or "dont have sex if you dont want children".....

there are things that happen...choices that are FORCED upon women and even young girls and these choices are born of circumstances that some of you couldnt possibly fathom living through.

as a GROWN WOMAN...i cannot tell you how IMPORTANT it is to ME to have MY RIGHTS to decide how i handle my own body. I dont need some doctorine, some politician, some pro-life radical or someone who hasnt even "lived" a full life yet or experienced the things that adults experience telling me how to handle MY CHOICE.

Some of you do not realize just how RECENT it has been that women have been able to enjoy the rights that Feminism and those even before the dawn of feminism have won for us.

so while some of you are so quick to reference religion, God, the bible, george bush or whoever...when you proclaim "pro life no matter what"...remember...that just over 40 years ago...men used those same platforms to justify: beating their wives as long as it was "behind closed doors" because "women were to be kept in line....the bible says so"; making women forego any chance of a full life by staying home and being nothing more than "baby machines"...FORCING the women to depend on othe men; and trying to force us to think that it was a SIN or a BAD thing for us to be comfortable with our sexuality or to understand it......much less take control of our own bodies in all ways.

REMEMBER THAT...when you are so quick to stand behind a president who wants to TAKE AWAY a WOMAN'S RIGHT to CHOOSE!

Being pro choice doesnt mean that every woman who feels that way is going to rush out and have an abortion...it means that no matter what...she has her RIGHT to decide her options....and ULTIMATELY (father involved or not) its HER body...HER life....and there fore its HER CHOICE.

When some of you become fully adult women...you will probably better understand that.

;)

[Tempest]

I hear what you're saying - it's not that I don't :)

Kewl lol. I was hoping I wasn't coming off bitchy or anything x.x English isn't my first language so what sounds fine in my head comes out reaaaally different to others lmao.

[ZorCrow]

If a person is trying to commit suicide it is the legal authority's job to stop them.

If a person is going to try to kill someone it's the legal authority to stop them.

Abortion is murder period. It is the taking of a life that is not your own.
Using the term Freedom and Choice are buzzwords that hide the true facts.

When an abortion happens a life is killed . . . someone is murdered legally.

Using the term Choice and Child Freedom and Rights are covers that don't deal with service and justice. It's not your body, I am not trying to tell women what to do with their bodies unless I have the legal authority to do so (i.e. being under arrest, being interviewed, et. al).

This is the child's body, so men don't carry babies so what? Wome carry lives inside them and when they chose to have the kids killed through surgery it's murder. Children can not survive outside the womb until a certain date.
Children can not surive on their own once they come out he womb until they are physically, mentally, and psychologically read. So why not kill them then?
Having post delivery abortions . .

I dont' like the baby's dad, or I don' t know who the father is, or whatver.
The life is terminated. Since the mother usually deals with the child and women breastfeed to help the child nurture and grow, so the women should have the right to kill the baby then right? Or have the doctor put it to sleep.

What's the difference? Its' a life, abortion is murder, killing, slaughter, 40,000,000 abortions since it's been made legal. 40 MILLION innocent lives.
40 MILLION. That's not choice, that's not your body, that's death.

[Jacob Black]

I am sorry, but if you are opposed to abortion then you must be opposed to eating meat or anything else that involves killing. There are tons of cows that are born destined to die and nobody ever says anything about that? If you are so opposed to taking the life of an unborn baby, how can you then NOT be opposed to the killing of a baby calf just so we can have veal? If you TRULY believe that Life is life, than how can you sit and eat a hamburger? Those animals didn't have a choice on whether or not they wanted to get shot and then served on a plate? Are we better than animals because we developed guns? No, so let's no be hippocrates, you can't pick and choose which kind of deaths you support and don't.

[Prue Halliwell]

I just wanted to say that the title to the thread is a bit confusing. I don't know anybody who is FOR abortion. It's not like there are people out there saying "YAY abortion's great! Everybody should get one!" and it seems like that's what the thread is asking.

Now on for the pro-life/pro-choice topic. I am pro-choice. Abortion is a very difficult decision that women have to make. Nobody can or should make it for them. I don't think you should be able to force your own morals on a person and refuse them the right to do what they will with their body. That doesn't mean I believe in abortion with no restrictions. Except for medical reasons I don't believe in abortions after the first tri-mester. I think a woman has three months to decide after that you waited to long sweetie, sorry.

Okay, that's enough from me. I'm done. ;)

[Lauren Collins]

First of all, I think we had crummy Presidential nominees for Republican and Democrat, being that Bush supports the death penalty but claims abortion is wrong and uses Christianity to base that on, meanwhile Kerry opposes the death penalty and supports abortion. That's so hypocritical on both of their parts. ((GREEN PARTY ALL THE WAY!! lol))

Anyways, I do think it's wrong. But I still can't honestly say if I was in a certain position that I wouldn't have one. I would definitely have guilt all my life...

Here's the thing. My mom does accounting for a place that's right beside an abortion clinic, run by the abortion clinic's owner's daughter...lol You still with me? So sometimes she has to do the work for the clinic also. Well yeah, she finds out some things that have turned me really against it. Especially since the clinic does illegal abortions AFTER the maximum date has been reached...And someone HAS died because of it, we think. Another person came pretty darn close, which is scary. Anyways, some stories of things like the baby (Yes, I'm calling the "fetus" a BABY, because they obviously knew what was going on) would instinctively pull away while they were "sucking it out" or whatever the heck it is they do. That to me proves something right there. A lot of people use excuses such as, "It's not even a human yet"... Then how do they explain things like that? It obviously KNOWS something's up. They also sometimes put them in socks, then stick em in the freezer til the Abortion Man comes and picks up the "Products of Conception", which is what they call them in doctor language. They have also been known to pull out WHOLE body parts, which is more sickening than anything...

No, I'm not trying to say all of you suck and should die and go to hell...lol but those are some of the main reasons I was just turned WAY against it...It's just so hard to even think about. Especially the fact that it's run by the doctor who delivered ME as a baby and also runs a BIRTH CENTER. How much more hypocritical can you get? Gohhh.

I mean, there are some girls who just go out at age 12 and 13, have tons of sex without protection, and have tons of abortions. Those people just need to tie their tubes up or something, because I'm SO SICK of seeing people do that...when there are women who want to have a baby more than anything and CAN'T, while these girls are just wasting their lives away. But in OTHER cases, especially such as rape, I don't know what I would do in a situation like that. You don't want to come hope from a date and a few weeks later have to tell your parents, "Oh hey, Mom. Dad. I forgot to tell you. I was raped 2 weeks ago and got pregnant!" And going to school huge and everyone knowing- Most probably wouldn't believe a rape story either. I think cases like that should be looked at from a totally different perspective, if you know what I mean. Lots of Christians would argue with me over that, but most of them don't have the honesty to consider what THEY would do in a situation like that.

[Caroline Forbes]

I think you bring up a good point in that how does anyone really know how they would act in this situation unless they've actually been there?

I would like to point out that not every person who considers abortion is a skank ho lol

[Jill Monroe]

there's alot of uninformed, narrow minded thinking in here....i would expect that from men when it comes to women's issues, and i would also expect that from younger women who havent really lived LIFE yet...but i would like to remind each of you that you dont have the right to lump everyone into a generalized category.

obviously no one here is going to change their view on abortion itself but an open mind and some sensitivity would go along way for some of the posters in this thread.

first of all...dont comment on the "character" of someone (i.e. the implication that they are a "skank" or "ho" OR that they "deserve what they get") if you yourself arent prepared to receive the same kind of harsh judgement when YOU face a difficult discision.

and for all you CHILDREN (yes i said it dammit) who feel as though you are an authority on the subject...i would ask that you take a couple of years to actually GROW UP AND LIVE LIFE outside of the realm that your parents provide you and see then how you feel about this or ANY OTHER topic that you as a woman may have to face. its easy to spout off ideaological rhetoric when you have a safety net behind you. when you go out into the world and face things on your own....it changes.

a woman's RIGHT TO CHOOSE is the most important thing she can have. its something that MANY WOMEN around the world can only DREAM about....some women have to face "female circumcision", are forced to wear restrictive clothing from head to toe and remain indoors at all times..and some live in constant fear of being stoned for having sex with someone who they arent married to and yet th MEN of their cultures are free to sleep with whomever they choose.

INEQUALITY has been something WOMEN have had to face for years....Roe Vs. Wade helped us get a step closer to what shouldve been ours from the beginning ....our basic right to control our own body.

THINK ABOUT THAT when you spout off about something that you cant possibly fathom.

[Jacob Black]

I think perhaps the best movie on this topic is If These Walls Could Talk.. watch the first story with Demi Moore ;) and then get back to me.. That movie is VERY powerful.